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Grease fitting identification
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 9:30 pm
by Jim11787
I have not seen a fitting like this. Is there an advantage to these over standard Zerk fittings? Does anyone know if a standard Zerk fitting could replace this? I’d like to not have to buy an adapter for my grease gun.
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 9:40 pm
by Norman Kling
I don't recognize the picture. Where is it located on a T? I am not familiar with the very early brass T's. The earliest one I worked on was a 16. There used to be a grease gun with a twist fitting that would lock to the pins on the sides of this type fitting. It might have been what is called an Alemite fitting. I like the idea of the hose on the gun gripping the fitting so that you can both hands free to pump the gun. I have not seen one like that on a T. Most of the T's have grease cups with a cap which is filled with grease and screwed down.
Norm
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 9:51 pm
by Mark Gregush
"I have not seen one like that on a T. Most of the T's have grease cups with a cap which is filled with grease and screwed down."
Not originally, but I have seen them and installed a few.
The thread is the same as the common Zerk, so yes you can install one in its place.
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 9:51 pm
by Scott_Conger
It's an Alemite fitting and has unfortunately been installed in a spurious hole drilled into the spindle by someone who didn't understand or care to learn how/why the kingpin should lubricate the spindle bushings
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 10:13 pm
by dobro1956
As Scott mentioned it is an Alemite fitting. They were used in the Model T era, but not on Model Ts as supplied from the factory. They were used as a replacement accessory on some Ts but were not real common in the T era on Ts. I do believe they are correct on Model As. But I'm not 100% sure, so will leave that to the Model A guys.
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 10:54 pm
by Jim11787
Scott_Conger wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 9:51 pm
It's an Alemite fitting and has unfortunately been installed in a spurious hole drilled into the spindle by someone who didn't understand or care to learn how/why the kingpin should lubricate the spindle bushings
Scott, on top of the kingpin is a flip cap to oil. If I’m understanding you, I can just leave these as is, as they should not have been installed in the first place. It is on a 26 Roadster pickup for additional information.
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 11:11 pm
by Scott_Conger
Jim, you are correct
when you have the time and inclination, it would be well to remove the kingpin and blow out the grease from the passageway and also clean all of the grease out of the body of the spindle.
When the car was new, normal motor oil would have been put in the flip-up oiler and it would have made it's way to the upper bushing, past the bushing and run down the kingpin to the lower bushing. If you find oil runs out too fast from excessive clearance, using a lathe way-oil or chainsaw oil usually does the trick with less "drizzle" as it is made to be tacky without being overly viscous...it will stay put very well.
The clearance I mention can be it's own source of necessary repairs at some point, but everything has it's time and place when you're putting a "T" into regular service.
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 11:42 pm
by KWTownsend
My 1921 American LaFrance had Alemite grease fittings.
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Tue May 30, 2023 11:50 pm
by MarkS
Those are Alemite Pin Type grease fittings. I think I read somewhere that they came on the scene in the 20’s. When I got my ‘15 Touring 22 years ago the kingpins and tie rod ends had oil cups, but the spring shackles and steering column has these. I have kept them; and as someone else noted, the grease gun stays put leaving both hands available for pumping in grease. They also have a nice spring loaded cover to keep things clean. Restoration Supply Company still sells them; they typically come with either 1/8” or 1/4” NPT pipe threads, and in brass or nickel. I also have some caps that are brass, and some nickel as well.
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 10:53 am
by Original Smith
What's wrong with stock?
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 11:10 am
by John.Zibell
Grease holds up better under pressure. Oil is OK for spring shackles, but grease would provide better protection for the shackles and bushings.
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 11:15 am
by Rich Eagle
This is some nice information on Alemites that Jay posted a while back:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/11 ... 1292339423
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 12:46 pm
by Craig Leach
There is nothing wrong with stock. Model T's had grease cups. They are bulky, heavy & costly. I will assume that's why Henry only put them in a
few places. Alemite & Zerk came in the late teens & early twenties as a great improvement to drip lubrication. Ford adopted them (Zerk) in
1928 I will assume again that was because they were cheeper & easyer to access than grease cups. And grease has a longer service interval
500 miles as opposed to 200 miles. Modern grease has a even longer service life. This workes out well for those that dont lubricate until it's to
late to save the parts. Which is the other reason the aftermarket industy became so big.
Larry is right there isn't anything wrong with stock. There is also nothing wrong with making our cars last longer & be more enjoyable. I commend
those that take the effert to use as close to period upgrades as they can for safety & reliability. Just my opinion.
Craig.
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 1:46 pm
by Jim11787
First thanks for all of your input- I am a new member and have found this community to be friendly and helpful. In reading through the responses it seems a previous caretaker drilled, tapped and installed these fittings to use grease instead of oil. I would think that since they are already installed, I should clean out the old grease and just grease these instead of using the oil fillers going forward (or replace these with zero fittings so don’t have to get another grease gun adapter. Sound good?
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 3:07 pm
by Scott_Conger
Adding oil at the top flip cap, the oil can do only 1 thing: follow gravity and lubricate everything along the way
Adding grease at the middle of the spindle, the grease will do only 1 thing: it will follow the path of least resistance, meaning it will flow toward the greatest clearance...anything that is not worn out now, will soon be.
Given the fact that the top bushing flange is the entire support of the axle and is metal to metal...that is your tightest clearance...unless brand new, there will be clearance at the bottom of the bottom bushing between it and the axle. Combined with wear in the bore, too, that will be where the grease will typically come out, never creating enough pressure to lift the axle off of the top bushing and provide critical lubrication. On the other hand, oil WILL creep there.
with the expectation that grease will last longer, lubrication will be less frequent, and the dirt that collects at joints will have a lot longer to do it's deed.
People sometimes confuse my advice with that of an admonition as to what you must do. That is not true. Where I have experience with a thing, I simply lay out facts and if an opinion is involved, I will state that it is an opinion.
My opinion is that you should do what makes you the most comfortable and I am glad that you're taking the time to get to know your car...taking care of it will pay off in spades.
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 3:23 pm
by Jim11787
Scott_Conger wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 3:07 pm
Adding oil at the top flip cap, the oil can do only 1 thing: follow gravity and lubricate everything along the way
Adding grease at the middle of the spindle, the grease will do only 1 thing: it will follow the path of least resistance, meaning it will flow toward the greatest clearance...anything that is not worn out now, will soon be.
Given the fact that the top bushing flange is the entire support of the axle and is metal to metal...that is your tightest clearance...unless brand new, there will be clearance at the bottom of the bottom bushing between it and the axle. Combined with wear in the bore, too, that will be where the grease will typically come out, never creating enough pressure to lift the axle off of the top bushing and provide critical lubrication. On the other hand, oil WILL creep there.
Scott this makes perfect sense to me. Thank you!
with the expectation that grease will last longer, lubrication will be less frequent, and the dirt that collects at joints will have a lot longer to do it's deed.
People sometimes confuse my advice with that of an admonition as to what you must do. That is not true. Where I have experience with a thing, I simply lay out facts and if an opinion is involved, I will state that it is an opinion.
My opinion is that you should do what makes you the most comfortable and I am glad that you're taking the time to get to know your car...taking care of it will pay off in spades.
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 4:55 pm
by Wayne Sheldon
Scott_Conger wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 3:07 pm
Adding oil at the top flip cap, the oil can do only 1 thing: follow gravity and lubricate everything along the way
Adding grease at the middle of the spindle, the grease will do only 1 thing: it will follow the path of least resistance, meaning it will flow toward the greatest clearance...anything that is not worn out now, will soon be.
Given the fact that the top bushing flange is the entire support of the axle and is metal to metal...that is your tightest clearance...unless brand new, there will be clearance at the bottom of the bottom bushing between it and the axle. Combined with wear in the bore, too, that will be where the grease will typically come out, never creating enough pressure to lift the axle off of the top bushing and provide critical lubrication. On the other hand, oil WILL creep there.
with the expectation that grease will last longer, lubrication will be less frequent, and the dirt that collects at joints will have a lot longer to do it's deed.
People sometimes confuse my advice with that of an admonition as to what you must do. That is not true. Where I have experience with a thing, I simply lay out facts and if an opinion is involved, I will state that it is an opinion.
My opinion is that you should do what makes you the most comfortable and I am glad that you're taking the time to get to know your car...taking care of it will pay off in spades.
There is one thing I wish to add, and Scotts excellent explanation is a good lead in to that. When the model T got to be a few years old, and the kingpins and bushing became a bit worn, especially on the bottom bushing? Oil put in the top quickly exited out the slightly loose bottom. The primary reason to add Alemite grease fittings in the middle of the spindle was for the grease to fill the empty space and slow down the fresh oil's exit. As long as the owner continued to adequately oil the flip-top oiler at the top of the kingpin, the top would have plenty of oil. Then as the oil flowed down, it would mix with the grease, and not flowing so quickly out the worn bushing the oily goo would lubricate the lower bushing.
Upper kingpin bushings with the weight of the car pressing down on it mostly wear on the top "thrust" face, as the weight of the car keeps the rest of the bushing from bouncing around too much. The lower bushing, without any weight pressing the bushing against the axle, bounces around with every bump in the road. The angle of the "T" shape spindle leverages the bushing more out at the bottom and maximizes wear on the "inside" of both the kingpin and bushing. This widening gap is what allows oil to more quickly flow out as the car ages. To reiterate, the grease inside slows the oil's exit, and the oily-greasy goo stays a bit longer in the loose bushing.
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 8:45 pm
by Jim11787
Wayne Sheldon wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 4:55 pm
Scott_Conger wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 3:07 pm
Adding oil at the top flip cap, the oil can do only 1 thing: follow gravity and lubricate everything along the way
Adding grease at the middle of the spindle, the grease will do only 1 thing: it will follow the path of least resistance, meaning it will flow toward the greatest clearance...anything that is not worn out now, will soon be.
Given the fact that the top bushing flange is the entire support of the axle and is metal to metal...that is your tightest clearance...unless brand new, there will be clearance at the bottom of the bottom bushing between it and the axle. Combined with wear in the bore, too, that will be where the grease will typically come out, never creating enough pressure to lift the axle off of the top bushing and provide critical lubrication. On the other hand, oil WILL creep there.
with the expectation that grease will last longer, lubrication will be less frequent, and the dirt that collects at joints will have a lot longer to do it's deed.
People sometimes confuse my advice with that of an admonition as to what you must do. That is not true. Where I have experience with a thing, I simply lay out facts and if an opinion is involved, I will state that it is an opinion.
My opinion is that you should do what makes you the most comfortable and I am glad that you're taking the time to get to know your car...taking care of it will pay off in spades.
There is one thing I wish to add, and Scotts excellent explanation is a good lead in to that. When the model T got to be a few years old, and the kingpins and bushing became a bit worn, especially on the bottom bushing? Oil put in the top quickly exited out the slightly loose bottom. The primary reason to add Alemite grease fittings in the middle of the spindle was for the grease to fill the empty space and slow down the fresh oil's exit. As long as the owner continued to adequately oil the flip-top oiler at the top of the kingpin, the top would have plenty of oil. Then as the oil flowed down, it would mix with the grease, and not flowing so quickly out the worn bushing the oily goo would lubricate the lower bushing.
Upper kingpin bushings with the weight of the car pressing down on it mostly wear on the top "thrust" face, as the weight of the car keeps the rest of the bushing from bouncing around too much. The lower bushing, without any weight pressing the bushing against the axle, bounces around with every bump in the road. The angle of the "T" shape spindle leverages the bushing more out at the bottom and maximizes wear on the "inside" of both the kingpin and bushing. This widening gap is what allows oil to more quickly flow out as the car ages. To reiterate, the grease inside slows the oil's exit, and the oily-greasy goo stays a bit longer in the loose bushing.
This makes sense and explains why my T has these fittings. Thank you. I think I will replace them with Zerk fittings to fit my grease gun and use both grease and oil..
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Wed May 31, 2023 10:25 pm
by Wayne Sheldon
Unless your kingpins and bushings are exceptionally good? You should replace them with good new ones or excellent original era ones. Along with making certain the front spring is properly set, and all the shackles and bushings are good smooth and tight, those things are a good start to a nice driving model T that will give many wonderful miles of touring pleasure.
Any of that front end stuff gets very loose, and the car can develop some nasty driving habits, like "death Wobbles" or darting uncontrollably to one side or the other! Such cars are not very fun to drive.
Once the kingpins and bushings are in proper condition? You shouldn't need the grease fittings. Oiling as originally intended is all that part of the car should need.
One of my model T speedsters had the after-market Alemite grease fittings everywhere, including the front spindles. Once I had the front end tightened up like it should be, I left the Alemite fittings on the spindles for looks. But I simply oiled the kingpins regularly.
Re: Grease fitting identification
Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:27 pm
by YellowTRacer
One thing that you can count on is varied opinions when you post on our forum. Most are good and helpful, so I might as well add mine. When I acquired and restored my old race car in 1967/8 it had the old Alemite grease fittings in the spindles, decent bushings, so they were part of the original package and I left them there, got an Alemite grease gun and have kept them well lubricated ever since. Sometime in the 1980s I replaced the bushings, and 40 or so years later they are still good. I drive my car a lot. So......forget the more modern Zerk fittings, get an Alemite gun and have more fun with "era" stuff. You can see them (plus a few others on the front end) in the attached picture shot by my good friend Ned Lawler during a race at Laguna Seca Raceway in Monterey, CA. as I rounded turn 11, a little more than 90 degree left turn, a bit to fast and so the rear of the car was loose and thinking about trying to pass me.
Ed aka #4