MTFCA Forum

With the early cars, at least prior to 1917, there was a parts list booklet, and with it was a list of tools included with the car. On that tool list is a #27 wrench. I can only assume it is the band wrench. But why? Why didn't they just call it what it is? The other booklet included was the Ford Manual.

Simple..., literacy rates were very low at that time and a lot of immigrants which compounded the issue not learning english yet. Part numbers, ie, numerals were simpler and universal.

Hank

Older posts on the #27 wrench:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29 ... 1159653865

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1481820518

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80 ... 1253369726

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/41 ... 1399770078

Don't know why that Ford form 380 which lists the Tools, called the 1917 band nut and gas line pack nut wrench a #27.


But do know these wrenches were made in big and small sizes. Some speculation when the 'big' version was used, but a review of Parts and Prices lists gives some data. Many of these lists show 'Mailing Weight', so the big version would weight more of course.

Here is a review:
Jan. 1 1913 Price List 1917 5 oz.
April 1 1914 Price List 1917 5 oz.
Oct. 1, 1914 Price List 1917 3 oz.
Aug. 1, 1915 Price List 1917 3 oz.

So seems the 1915 model year has the 'smaller' size wrench as std. factory

Dans wrench pictures show what happens after many years of use. The ones that are shown are similar to the ones that I have. The jaws get gradually spread over time. I’ve found some in old tool boxes of this and that. Not surprisingly the better one that I have is a rusted up one that was found in the dirt and must have been lost years ago.

Fords tools were OK but not the best in the long run. I guess the extra cost of using chrome vanadium in their tools was to much. Just my opinion! But I could be wrong what the grade of steel was used in the wrench’s.

I’ve used a hammer to close the jaws just enough to make them usable again. That usually works.
I’ll bet Dan would know about what grade of material they were made of. Hes always good about T information. Thanks for all your input.

One of the things I always wanted to do was to check the hardness of the forged tools. I just never got around to it. From the surface hardness, there is a way to 'best guess' what the tensile strength is, and on something relatively 'thin' where the hardness due to drop hammer strikes is then fairly uniform throughout. From that it would be a good best guess as to how it compared to todays steel grades.

I 'think' I may have an answer to the #27. I am a firm believer that Ford initially purchased tools complete, and NOT to a FORD drawing or specification. Decent tool, decent price, you are 'in' we need this many. Then FORD file record drew what they were buying for archive purposes as the purchasing system evolving needed drawings for everything! Then as a part 2, FORD decided he wanted his logo on everything to prevent spurious copy cats from blaming FORD supply for failures. (For those who have done it...try building a 100 point FORD GPW WW2 Jeep and sit it next to a Willys MB...just the hardware alone right down to script 'F' on EVERYTHING

That said, I'd also be curious on whether a lot of this stuff was then really 're-strikes' (cold formed) logo and part number of stock items the hardware maker was producing. We are all well aware of the Moore stuff being FORD while at the same time carrying Moore on the tool. I have always wondered as since FORD never knew just how many they needed, just how did the tool makers keep up? There are only two possibilities...1)they set up lines specifically for FORD for a single hot formed forged, or, they just took their regular supply and did a cold formed 're-strike' to smooth over the ebb and flow of order stream.

I have never gone looking for it, but somewhere there is probably a trade catalog from 1907-1908 (The Grainger of the era) that sells open ended wrenches 'by the number'.

John kuehn wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:13 am

Dans wrench pictures show what happens after many years of use. The ones that are shown are similar to the ones that I have. The jaws get gradually spread over time. I’ve found some in old tool boxes of this and that. Not surprisingly the better one that I have is a rusted up one that was found in the dirt and must have been lost years ago.

Fords tools were OK but not the best in the long run. I guess the extra cost of using chrome vanadium in their tools was to much. Just my opinion! But I could be wrong what the grade of steel was used in the wrench’s.

I’ve used a hammer to close the jaws just enough to make them usable again. That usually works.
I’ll bet Dan would know about what grade of material they were made of. Hes always good about T information. Thanks for all your input.

I have to disagree with your assessment of the wrench spread. This tool was designed to adjust bands. Its years of abuse using the wrench on normal bolt applications. The later, narrow jawed version was needed to fit in the narrow recesses of the aluminum hogs heads. I discovered this working on some early T's. Regular wrenches dont fit between the pedal bosses. This narrow version does. Being more familiar with iron HH's, I had to dig around for an original band wrench to do the job.

I believe over time Model T tools sort of migrated to other uses besides just for T use and and nuts and bolts that were on a T other than what they were intended to be for.

They for the most part we’re used on farm equipment and whatever they would fit. That’s probably what happened to a lot of T tools getting rounded out or at least the jaws getting spread. Not all were that way of course but a good many were.

Same goes for spark plug wrench’s also.

T screwdrivers with the shank going all the way through the wooden handle got used as a chisel and the handles were cracked or beaten off.

Anyway that’s opinion and good usable T specific can still be found along with the really abused ones.

George Mills wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:25 pm

I 'think' I may have an answer to the #27. I am a firm believer that Ford initially purchased tools complete, and NOT to a FORD drawing or specification. Decent tool, decent price, you are 'in' we need this many. Then FORD file record drew what they were buying for archive purposes as the purchasing system evolving needed drawings for everything!

George

Thinking like you, so you must be right!

Here is the Ford Parts and Price List for the N, R, S cars, showing part of the tool listings, note the 1313 wrench Ford Part No. and then the description line giving other numerals for it, so that is likely mfg. ordering or catalog number.


click to enlarge image

The final incarnation, the more plentiful one with the diamond shape between the ends, is meant ONLY to drive the spring loaded nut on the internally adjusted bands, so it did not need to be heavyweight. I believe they are spread when using them as ordinary wrenches on nuts/bolts. If you want to correct the spread to save a wrench, NEVER do it cold with a hammer. They will almost certainly break if the spread is pronounced. Don't ask how I know this. I heat them cherry red and close them down in a vice. That way the load is controlled. This is not something that should be done with a general purpose wrench, but the low load band adjusting operation will not stress the tool beyond its proper use.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under