MTFCA Forum

I just bought a 12 touring today, and unrestored car, and all the brass is painted black, was told back in the day the Menonite community could not have brass showing so dealerships painted it black for the customer? Anyone ever heard of this? Thanks Joe.

I don't know about the brass era, but growing up in PA in the 60's near a Mennonite community, we used to see the occasional car with the chrome painted black.

Yes, I have heard that story as well and seen cars with the brass or nickel painted out.

My mother, born 1908, said that some of her country neighbors painted the brass because brass fell out of favor plus they didn't want spend time poishing the brass. Many were busy raising g their 10 children.

Art Mirtes

In the Harrisonburg Va area they were called "Black Bumper Mennonites" did not have chrome on the vehicles. Used modern items but minimized any flash and glitz . Don't think they used radios nor tv.
knew a Mennonite family in Chesapeake Va with a modern cabinet shop drove nice king ranch ford's but removed the fuse to the radios.
It's a modern sect or version of Amish we also have German Baptist in the Roanoke Va area that look & dress Amish, no buttons, but drive humble modern and might use electricity in the shop beside the house but have gas lighting at home.

Wikipedia is worth a read, there appears to be quite a few different variants of this group that started around 500 years ago.

Perhaps of most relevance is this excerpt:

Emergence of car driving Old Order Mennonites

"There was another split in 1927 over disagreements over the use of automobiles. The Weaverland Mennonite then allowed the use of cars, but only with black bumpers*. Those opposed to car usage formed a new church, the Groffdale Conference Mennonite Church, also called Wenger Mennonites. The remainder of the Weaverland Conference since then have also been known as ... "Black-bumper Mennonites" for their past custom of purchasing cars but covering up the flashy chrome with black paint. In 2013, the Meadow Springs Old Order Mennonite Church Conference in Myerstown, Pennsylvania, with 289 members and four congregations, had divided from the Weaverland Old Order Mennonite Conference. The Meadow Springs split was over disagreements on the acceptance of technology and the internet and they also wanted more conservative dress standards."

* another entry states "Although this group began using cars in 1927, the cars were required to be plain and painted black."

A further sub-group is the "Horse and Buggy Old Order Mennonites", who allow the use of [steel wheel] tractors for farming, but otherwise no automobiles.

So, if Wikipedia is correct and they first began using cars and the black paint thing sometime in 1927, just as Model T's were finishing, perhaps they only ever had secondhand brass T's, or late runout models...

Update: This detail suggests it's possible a limited number of Mennonites had cars prior to 1927: https://gameo.org/index.php?title=Automobile

Luke.

Art M wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:47 pm

My mother, born 1908, said that some of her country neighbors painted the brass because brass fell out of favor plus they didn't want spend time poishing the brass. Many were busy raising g their 10 children.

Art Mirtes

Joe

I'll lean more to this by Art. Brass lanterns were fading from fashion by the mid 'teens. And perhaps a Mennonite owing a car early like your '12, with the added cost Prest-O-Lite and factory optional front doors , would be rare.

Early automobiles still hadn't out paced the horse buggy!

A few years back the bride and I took a tour of the Amish and Mennonite areas in Lancaster County PA. Our (bus) tour guide was a Mennonite who told us quite a bit about (mainly) the Amish. He said that all of the tour company's guides were Mennonite as the Amish would not travel in the busses. The Amish would not use machinery or electricity in their daily lives, but had no problem with electric-powered milking machinery as long as the source of electricity was a generator and not the power grid. Typically each Amish neighborhood would have one telephone outside at the street end of a dirt driveway for emergency use only. The Amish did not want to be connected to the outside world. Ostentation was actively discouraged by both the Amish and the Mennonites. Many of the Amish women made beautiful quilts, and had no problem allowing tourists into their homes to sell them.

When brass went out of style, a lot of people modernized their cars by painting over their brass. Ford was late to the nickel era and this became an especial sticking point for Ford owners.

Stolen car notices describing Fords owned by doctors, salesmen, etc. often mention the brass painted black. It may be that a lot of the black-painted over brass Fords were owned by ordinary people who simply wanted to update their car.

Here's a five year old 1912 touring, just like your car, with a respectable family inside. The trim is now black, the windshield braces have been replaced and striping omitted to update it.

Here are a few more. Amazing, this was not that unusual. Note the 1914 with the cherry tone dash painted black, to update it as well.

Also, you could have the brass nickel plated. But it was costly and no deterrent to theft.

Soak em in lacquer thinner and bring em back to their original glory!!

The dash is painted black also inside and out, I use to paint cars for a living so I know when one has been repainted or not, some of this car had some brush work on it but not the body.

Hope Joe don't mind..here's a screenshot of it he sent me yesterday.

And yep that poor firewall...well...reckon a new one is in order & stained cherry! I'll think of the name of stain commonly accepted as being as close original as possible!

Laurel Mountain Forge...thats the name!

This is interesting... and timely.

I was reading "From Here to Obscurity" the other night and came across the 1913 section with the E&J 666... "black and brass".

That was my first thought, but I'm guessing that these are truly brass painted black.

v/r,
jason

the black and brass lamps were actually steel painted black. The brass parts were brass that were similar to the previous lamps parts. I guess it was a style thing and a way to cut costs. They just left the trim pieces brass. They did not normally paint the brass black from the factory.

Joe, congratulations on your car. Thats an exceptionally nice and unmolested 1912.

It's never been apart, and its accessories are all what the original owner would have done: five lug demountables, black-painted brass - it even has the very popular electric headlight inserts, commonly seen in old photos. Better yet, it has the original fore doors. Everything on your car probably dates to the early and mid 1910s as your car was driven in everyday service.

If Pebble accepted Fords you would have a great candidate for an award in the Preservation Class. I know that the AACA does, maybe the MTFCA as well. All of these groups are about appreciating the original material of a car as built and modified by its original owners when in first use. By the way, if you want to watch a crowd appear at cars 'n coffee, this car will do it - much more than a restored one.

I think the best candidates for restoration are cars with older restorations in need of a redo, or are so far gone that it's all you can do. Your car is neither - it's so well preserved, and with materials most restorers almost immediately toss aside to make it "original" that you can just enjoy her as she is. Sort out the engine and running gear and enjoy.

I have seen known original 12's and 13's with seemingly original brass lamps that are partially painted brass especially 13's with Brown 110 and 105 oil lamps. Like many other Model T components, transitions exhausted usable supplier inventories before full new part roll out.

One of the Model T books talks about this. I don't remember if it is Bruce's or the earlier one, but there is a photo of a car with the brass painted black. Darryl