MTFCA Forum

I have a drawing for an earlier firewall that id like to use to make my 1914 touring conversion from.
My (pickup's) firewall is square but I'm wondering if it should be slightly tapered toward the top as the 1911 print shows? there is no telling what replacement/repairs have been made on this beauty.

I plan on using the print dimensions where I can while checking them with what is currently on the "T"

Just a little disappointed that the archived technical information isn't free to access

My first post so sorry and thanks
Vincent

Vincent

welcome to the affliction!
post pix!

I think you'll be pleased with this: https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/1 ... 1288113136

Note: this link is a start to your journey, but not the final word - read the entire post with care to note dimensional errors that are called out by posters. The drawing posted is not a FORD drawing, but was reproduced by a fellow by the name of Mel Miller. His drawings were pretty good, but not always perfectly accurate. This apparently is one such drawing, but will still give you a working idea of what you need

so I want to make this but with the top corners squared off, I think Im going to add the slight taper to the sides just because I like it. I will have to review the other features as this thing progresses. The trim is missing on one side so I will have to fab that then its going to get blacked

go slow

that is for a different car - an earlier 1915
knowing that, just be sure of what you want before you cut - and yes, as a minimum you want square corners on top to look close to a correct '14
and among other things be sure to understand what the drawing is showing for carb controls...there is actually but one slot, not two
also, study your body carefully - the firewall you posted fits INSIDE the body/trim covering and a '14 goes OUTSIDE the body, so whether or not you want a taper, a taper may not in fact work with the body - just saying - and remember, you have a windshield to fit on top and even if you are able to taper AND fit the body, it may look quite odd with the windshield installed. Baltic birch is pretty spendy these days and not always easily available...I'd be tempted to cut and fit a cheap template before I committed to making sawdust.

Not that it makes any difference now but I wonder if Leon Parker’s updated drawings had the corrections. He made a few changes on some of them.
But we’ll never know and the truth is out there somewhere. All the drawings he had are in somebody’s closet by now being saved for posterity.

I can get dimensions of my 13 firewall if that helps?

The Model T Encyclopedia is online. Lots of information as you progress on your car.
https://www.mtfca.com/encyclopedia/

Les Schubert wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 31, 2023 6:14 pm

I can get dimensions of my 13 firewall if that helps?

Thanks Les, I have dimensions and now thanks to the forum I have confirmation of the proper configuration for the year/model of the part. Now it’s down to just deciding.

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:27 pm

go slow

that is for a different car - an earlier 1915
knowing that, just be sure of what you want before you cut - and yes, as a minimum you want square corners on top to look close to a correct '14
and among other things be sure to understand what the drawing is showing for carb controls...there is actually but one slot, not two
also, study your body carefully - the firewall you posted fits INSIDE the body/trim covering and a '14 goes OUTSIDE the body, so whether or not you want a taper, a taper may not in fact work with the body - just saying - and remember, you have a windshield to fit on top and even if you are able to taper AND fit the body, it may look quite odd with the windshield installed. Baltic birch is pretty spendy these days and not always easily available...I'd be tempted to cut and fit a cheap template before I committed to making sawdust.

Great advice Scott,
I just picked up the lumber, true 3/4 ply and 12 board feet of
white oak $182 not cheap but not thousands either

There is another aspect to this I found out the hard way...

Different body manufacturers used different parts - not HUGELY different, but enough to where some will not work on others without some hand fitting.

Ny '15 Fisher body had this issue - someone put the right rear door off a Beaudette - same year, same body style, and by all rights you would hink i would match, right? I fought it for years as it wasn't close. The door barely closed, there was a huge oblong gap between the lower front corner and the body, the top of the door was flush with the top of the body, and the latch locked but that was about it. I took the cover off the inside of the door - all the wood was good and tight and snug, What made it worse I thought the "F" in the body number stood for "Ford", so I couldn't find any info on it, not knowing Fisher was making a LOT of the bodies for Ford at that point. Add to this - by 1915, Ford was putting out (compared to everything produced before) a formerly unseen (and insane) amount of cars, so bodies were coming from all over to go on all these shiny new Ford chassis... half a million cars in a year. That's a LOT!!!!

Just be aware of it going in. IF you have an original to the cowling etc (even if it's bad) it is well worth making a cardboard or cheapy plywood or hardboard pattern of the original, so when you get your new one (or the blank to make your own) you can make the small corrections so it actually FITS your cowling.

The 1911, 1914, and 1915 firewalls are all very different from each other!
A major change was made in early to mid 1912 model year (beginning of 1912 calendar year!). While the 1911 and 1914 firewalls will more or less interchange and function, they are quite different for aesthetic and cost reasons. Model Ts of that era are to a great extent identified by that firewall difference.
It would help us to know what sort of a model T pickup you have in mind. A "cutdown" factory body would almost always have used an original type firewall on the car as a pickup. Many after-market bodied pickups also used the factory firewall appropriate for its year of manufacture. However Some after-market bodied pickups did have special firewalls incorporated into the body for a variety of reasons.
The 1915 firewall is an entirely different design, and much smaller than all that came before it. That smaller firewall was fit into a pressed steel cowling/hood former piece which in turn attached to the cowling of the standard For body of those years.
Sometimes, 1915 commercial chassis were sold with the earlier 1913/'14 firewall installed. Sometimes they were sold with the standard smaller 1915 firewall and hood former, and then attached to whatever style front panel desired by the body builder or buyer.
The thickness of the 1915 firewall changed midyear 1915, it was made thinner by a small amount.

Good luck with your project!

Thanks to everyone that contributed to my post. After considering everything I've read and looking closely at my car I believe that cutting the sides square to the top of the firewall is the way to go, there is a line on the body where the firewall meets that wants to be followed.

Id like to ask another question of this same group rather than starting a new thread, I'm cutting body frame bits and it's very difficult to "read" the parts that I'm replacing. In an open car is the top edge "armrest" angled slightly down towards the interior?

Vincent

from my understanding of your question, those metal trim pieces are "flat" or square across the top and there is no bias/angle

here is a link with kinda-sorta shows what you're asking about https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/8 ... 40791https:
and another//www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/118802/16 ... 1288028304
and finally, a darn good one https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/5 ... 1463018479

Scott

that's what I'm after, the wood that's coming out is hard to sort out.
couple things I'm learning is the car was first registered in14 but the engine number points to 13.
I'm going to need the trim piece for the top of the door where the latch handle comes through

Ryan

model year/body styles are an interesting thing...a 1913 manufactured car would be "13" up to around August 1913, while Sept 30, 1913, was the end of the Fiscal Year...

generally, but not for absolute certain, in the August/September time frame, the 1913 square door model T transitioned to the more common round-bottom door style in FY 1914, remembering that no body was going to be scrapped just because of a date. Additionally, FORD was purchasing these bodies from a couple of suppliers, and there are logistics and other issues in play. While a design was obsoleted, there are documented cases of different styles mixed throughout the transition

now, finally, add to the soup the fact that most states did not issue titles until up to a decade later. My Jan 2, 1913 touring came with all of it's titles including the first one issued in Indiana, where the "owner swears and attests to the fact that he is the true owner of said vehicle, being a 1914 FORD motorcar". So if the owner mixed up the purchase date, that was the purchase date - you can bet that the State did not send out an expert with a computer run on FORD cars to verify the body style. It is titled as a 1914 to this day but bears all of the attributes consistent with it's Jan 2, 1913 manufacture

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about it! If it is a November 1, 1913 car, it is a 1914 car with a 1914 body. It was still MADE in 1913, of a 1914 body style. If it has square doors and you tell someone "it's a '14", some yahoo is going to refute you...if you say "it's a '13" and it has round bottom doors, the same yahoo is going to argue with you. Bottom line - "year" body is not necessarily the "year" of manufacture.