MTFCA Forum

Hi all, my T consistently develops a puddle of oil (?) below the starter after taking it for even short drives (2+ miles). I'm thinking I need to change out the gaskets or, worst case replace the starter. What do you think?

From the factory, there is no seal in the bushing on the part that bolts to the engine, so oil can pass between it and the shaft. There is a hole in the bottom of the housing to allow it to drain out, looks like you are draining a good amount! Good change that bushing is very worn for that much oil to get out. Options are getting a rebuilt starter with seal installed or rebuild it yourself. The dealers carry most all the parts. The only part not available is the bushing the Bendix rides in.

Try tightening the 4 starter mounting machine screws. They can work loose with starter torque. Or may be missing the needed lock washers, or gasket is shot. Check engine oil level too, needs to be below the top petcock.

If above isn’t the case, then worn starter bushings.

While the aforementioned remedies may help I would suggest you get the oil seal kit from the vendors. Takes a bit of work but worth it. No leaks under my Torpedo nor the Fordor and before I did the Fordor it would leak a pint of oil every trip out.

One other place to look is the bendix cover. Sometimes the screws are loose or needs a better gasket.
Norm

As mentioned above, too much oil in the crankcase will assure leaks. Ford recommended keeping the oil level halfway between the upper and lower petcocks "for best results".

You might think a heaver, thicker oil would reduce leakage, but with a Model T, the opposite is usually the case.

Model Ts were designed to use a quality, "medium" grade motor oil with a low (temperature) pour point, or cold test. That's about 20W.

A good 10W30 motor oil is a good choice today for most conditions.
In cold weather, 5W20 will do fine.


I use 5W30 or 10W30 synthetic oil with excellent results in very hot weather and in cool weather.

5W-20 is NOT equivalent to the 20W Ford recommended.

It's not the same. It's far better.

Remember, before attempting to work with the starter, remove the Bendix. Failure to do so will result in damage to the coil ring. As stated above, the seal kit is probably what is needed.

Try this
https://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/projects ... r_seal.htm
Ron Patterson

Back up a bit.
Thats a lot of oil for a short drive. Confirm where the oil is coming from before pulling the starter. The starter drain hole is normally a good bet, as mentioned. Thats from a worn bushing & no seal.
You probably should pull the engine pan & dry the area up with brake cleaner to find the source.
The leak may not be the starter. The corner of the H/H where it meets the pan is a prime spot for a high volume oil leak.
That spot is behind the starter mounting flange as viewed from the side & viewable from the bottom sans pan.

The type of oil used isn't going to help answer where it is leaking out.

Do what Ron Patterson said. I had the same problem on my 1926 roadster. bobt

Appreciate all the suggestions! I'll methodically and carefully use these to try to diagnose the problem over the next week or so. And if there are any other ideas, keep'em coming.

Reduce your oil level slightly.

Gracie'sDad wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 28, 2023 10:37 am

Reduce your oil level slightly.

Thats being done automatically.

bobt wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 27, 2023 4:50 pm

Do what Ron Patterson said. I had the same problem on my 1926 roadster. bobt

Funny...THATS exactly what I said further above in my post! I said get the seal kit from one of the vendors!

Early Model T starters were equipped with a felt seal for the Mounting Bracket/armature shaft seal. See attachd photo on Right.
Not sure how long this was done, but you don't see them very often. Those units did not have a drip hole drilled in the bottom of the starter case..
I rebuilt over 500 Model T starters and I only saw three with early units this type factory installed oil seal.
Apparantly Fords solution to this problem was to drill a hole in the bottom of the starter case to allow the oil that had flowed into the case via the armature shaft/mainbracket bushing.
Ron Patterson

Do what Ron Patterson said. I had the same problem on my 1926 Roadster. Click on Ron's link. bobt

You could get all fancy and get it redone, but I take a small plastic soup bucket from Chinese take out and tied it under the starter and ran a wire around to support it. Works just fine and just empty it periodically. Nobody sees it and it doesn’t overly complicate the matter

Bmettli wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 30, 2023 9:08 pm

You could get all fancy and get it redone, but I take a small plastic soup bucket from Chinese take out and tied it under the starter and ran a wire around to support it. Works just fine and just empty it periodically. Nobody sees it and it doesn’t overly complicate the matter

Guess that is not much different than the pan that mounts under the Model A bell housing to catch oil leaking from the rear main.
https://www.mikes-afordable.com/product/A6768.html

Ron; Thanks for the information on the early felt seal, didn't know there was such a thing.

Hi all, update... I did two things in hopes for a simple solution... 1) tightened the four starter machine screws as they were a little bit loose and 2) more importantly, I suspect that I had added too much oil when I changed it out mid-August. I started to see oil drips in places where there wasn't any before. Duh. So I drained off enough to where there is just a very slow drip coming out of the higher petcock and ran the T around the neighborhood approx 5 miles to see what happens and sure enough, no random drips and no puddle under the starter.

I hope this is the answer but I will definitely keep an eye on it and reference back to all of your great advice. As always, I really appreciate your suggestions!

Model Ts do not like thick oil, and overfilling one with oil will assure leaks and other issues. Ford recommended keeping the oil level halfway between the upper and lower petcocks. The oil capacity is usually given as one gallon, but in most cases when changing oil, 3 quarts will have oil above the lower petcock and 3 1/2 quarts will bring it to the upper petcock. Check oil with the car on level ground after it has sat for a while. When you add oil, allow a few minutes for the oil level to settle. Drain oil when hot, and allow time for the engine to drain completely. Raising the front end of the car 10" or so will help it drain. Never put a jack under the center of the front axle unless you have a 2 foot hardwood 4X4 on the saddle.