MTFCA Forum

Hi all, I'm new to the forum. Have worked on cars all of my life and have a number of classics (50's and 60's) but never owned a real T before. This one showed up on my facebook marketplace and I was shocked it was in Honolulu, just a few miles from where I live. Its been stored in a Coconut syrup factory (the white stuff on it is corn starch) for the last 24 years (last owner recently passed away) and I'm told that before that it was stored in a warehouse in west Oahu for about 20 years. Long story short, I wound up buying it a moving it to a small farm we have in Windward Oahu. My speculation is that this is a FrankenT? The motor based on serial number is from July 1920. I have no clue how to tell when the frame was made. The cab looks like it came from a 1919 TT? and the rear bed looks like a repop to me, its just in to good shape to be something 100 years old. After cleaning up the fuel system with fresh gas and carb cleaner, changed the oil, tested the coils and spark plugs, set the timer and then hot wired the box (no key) with a new 6 volt battery, the engine cranked about 4 times and then started up. Pretty amazing for something that has not run for probably 40 years. Can run it for only about a minute since the lower radiator outlet is rotted out. I can tell from a few short runs that at least one intake valve is probably stuck since there's some blowback through the carb and the clutch is stuck, I guess from sitting so long. I'll deal with those issues once I can run the engine long enough to see if they work themselves out. I did include a quart of ATF in the new oil to help things unstick. Hope to have it on the road again in a few months so I can tool it around the farm community:-)

I'm really looking for comments on what everyone thinks this is so I can try to get my story right!

Thanks in advance!

Steve

Hi Steven,
Yes it is a bitsa T, don't let that take the fun out of it. Just go with the 1920 & have a good time. Check the compression to find out if there is a
stuck valve. I reasently had to free up 3 exhaust valves in a engine for a friend. If thats the case, remove the generater, tappet cover & plugs.
squart penitrating oil, MMO or what ever you have through the plug hole. ( go a head & get all of them just for good measure ) with the tappet
close to the valve you can pry up gently, then turn the engine to drop the tappet & pry down on the valve. A brake spoon has the right angle to
get to the valve through the plug hole. Once you get it running ( if there is no water in it dont run it very long ) with both wheels jaked up, hand
brake straight up try pulling the hand brake back slowly to stop the rear wheels. That should free up the clutch after a while. Then look for a
radiator shop. Good luck. & wellcome to the afliction.
Craig.

The TT cab is from 1925 through 1927. But I wouldn't worry about that. It looks wonderful, and there are several other similar model T pickups scattered around the continental states.
I am not sure what the box is from. I appears to be an era factory pickup box of some sort, and might even be a model T box from late 1925 through 1927. Or it may be off something else. Either way, again, unless you are wanting to restore it back to car show condition? Things like that were changed around for many years after model Ts were manufactured. Thousands of model Ts were turned into pickups during the 1930's depression years when many people needed a cheap work truck. That is also a part of the model T story, and something to be proud of.

It appears to have the coil box mounted on the top of the engine. That is also a 1926/'27 thing. Close examination might reveal the chassis to be much later than 1920. If Hawaii is like most of the other states, and you have a valid state title for the T? Don't try to change it or correct it, bureaucrats don't like to be corrected. Make sure the numbers on the title match something on the car. And call it whatever you think fits.

You are reverting to your childhood..., known in modern terms in how to deal with a screwed up world. Best term, THERAPY!

Hank

PS: Be very careful, they are known to breed

Good show Steven ! Great looking Model T ! The only non Ford thing I see is the 2 rear fenders - but they’re cute and fit right in. A barn find right nearby! How fortunate !

So you found this in a corn syrup factory ?
If you are thinking of a name, how about 'Sweet thing'

What a great looking truck! Welcome to the T world.

Fun looking truck. The builder used a late TT (‘24-27)cab and placed it on a small drum axle car chassis (pre-26).

The bed is the ‘27 metal T pickup bed offered for the runabout. Nice work on the flared fender with extension to fit the location where a runabout fender would go. Perhaps those rear fenders are fiberglass?, can see damage on the upper edge. If so, that could date assembly. Nice paint and body work too.

Very good fun truck, should be easy to get it in running condition.

You can check for a stuck valve by turning the engine with the hand crank. You should feel two compression events per engine revolution.
The clutch issue may be a linkage problem.
I would not run the engine at all without filling the block with water.
That's a very nice looking vehicle. If the chassis is in good condition, it could safely carry around 400 lbs in the bed
with 2 persons up front.

It will ride and handle much better than a TT chassis, and should be able run run comfortably at 30-35 MPH if it has standard
passenger car gearing. If equipped with an auxiliary transmission or 2 speed axle, it would be more versatile.
If the chassis is in good condition, it will handle safely and predictably, EXCEPT when backing up, and of course, braking is severely limited. Always back up slowly, and NEVER let the vehicle roll backward fast.

Driving a T is quite different than driving a "modern" vehicle. You actually do have to drive it, which I find enjoyable.
Oil everything on the vehicle that moves, including linkages, door hinges and latches, and all chassis lube points. Oiling the springs will improve the ride and handling.

Your T is missing the carburetor adjustment rod that allows applying the choke and also adjusting the fuel mixture from the driver's seat.
If you choose to hand crank the engine, be sure the timing is correct and that you are familiar with the safe cranking procedure. The vehicle may run over you if you crank the engine with the clutch engaged, and it can break your arm, or the starter, if equipped, if the timing is not set correctly for starting.

Under the right conditions, the engine is capable of starting itself when you turn the ignition switch on. Always be sure the hand brake is set and the clutch is in neutral before attempting to start the engine. The brake/clutch must be adjusted properly.

The ignition can operate from the battery or from the magneto, and the engine will run best on the magneto.

Your TT is in pretty good shape! It appears to be a solid TT that has been sort of redone here and there but it’s an enough Model T to be the real deal.
This is a T that can be good enough as it is with just some minor work. It doesn’t need a restoration and I wouldn’t think about it at all. Hopefully you got a title or bill of sale with it. Whatever is on the title go with that for whatever the year is. Don’t try to make it exactly as what it is. In other words don’t worry about it!

If it still has an original T radiator that may have to be replaced. The lower radiator outlet can be fixed but will the radiator cool is the big question! Since you’re new to Model T’s if the radiator “looks” good that DOES NOT mean it will still cool. Your radiator ‘might’ can be fixed but be aware that it may not cool!
Good look on your good find!

If you can post a photo of the dash & switch, we can determine the year of the cab.

Hi Steve, welcome aboard. You will want to find the mixture/choke rod setup before you try to do very much driving. Another suggestion is that you find an aesthetic way to plug up the holes in the firewall where the original coils were removed (or you can revert to the original coil configuration). The MTFCA has a safety guide that you should utilize before you do any amount of driving. There are a couple of items that can cause a serious accident if left unattended. Most importantly, Have fun!

Hello Steve,

THANK YOU for a trip down memory lane. I was stationed at Pearl Harbor and we lived in Aiea when your new toy was put into hibernation. Sure wished I had been able to see it back then. Having had to re-register a vehicle on Oahu, I recommend you do everything you are able to keep ANY and ALL paperwork AS IS for Hawaii. As was commented above, I know how Hawaii is about vehicle titles an plates.
You may want to take the transmission inspection plate off and check to see if the bands and clutch are free. There may be enough rust to have them locked up/stuck together. Judicious application of tapping and prying instruments may yield the results you desire.

Good Luck and Keep us Posted as to your progress and fun!
Terry

For the stuck valve- put some Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas or even just some engine oil. That may be enough to free up the stuck valve, or pull the plugs and squirt some diesel fuel over the valve area in the cylinder. Its less work than removing the valve side door as a beginning. If your water outlet is toast, just mix up some JB weld or Marine Tex, clean the rust off, and use window screen to temporarily "rebuild" the outlet so you can keep water in the engine. just a sugestion.

That’s a good reminder about JB weld. Do as Dan M says so that you can get your T going and driving and you may get lucky and find out your radiator still cools fairly decent. I hope it does.

Kaiser wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 01, 2023 7:46 am

So you found this in a corn syrup factory ?
If you are thinking of a name, how about 'Sweet thing'

Sweet T(ea)

Thanks everyone for all of the info and the great suggestions. Now I have lots of fun work to do! I do have a clear title for the truck but registration in Hawaii is not very conducive for classics. My plan is no fancy restoration; I just want to get it running well and safe and then I'll put an orange triangle on the back and a few bales of hay so when the police stop me I can say i'm doing farm work:-). Dan, I really liked your JB Weld suggestion as a temp fix for the radiator outlet so I tried it out. (I always have lots of Weld around my shop). It aint pretty but I'm letting it cook overnight and will see how it works tomorrow. My bet is it will allow me to run the engine for a while to work out some of the other issues. I'll either have the current radiator fixed or a new one within a month or so. I'll also keep my temperature gun handy to make sure the engine isn't getting too hot.

Thanks again everyone for the help!!!

Steve

The JB Weld outlet nozzle repair worked better than I could have ever expected. Thanks again Dan for the suggestion and i'm confident it will hold until I get the permanent fix in place. I'm just using it to work out the bugs and won't take it on the road until I have the permanent fix in place.
Ran the engine at least 5 times today, each time for 10-15 minutes. By the second run the clutch was working and by the 4th run the blowback I was getting through the carb was all gone. Now I have to track down some rattles in the front of the motor. Can't tell if its coming from the fan, the generator or something else but will try to track that down with a stethoscope tomorrow or Monday. Also removed my hot wire while the engine was running and it didn't shut down so I guess I have a good magneto! Without the key the only way I could shut it down was to put my hand over the air intake.

I used my temp gun and found that the back of the head near the fire wall toped out at about 210 degrees, the front of the head topped out at around 200 which seamed reasonable to me with the engine sitting in stagnant air in the barn. Really impressive that a 100 year old engine can run this well!

Fan bushings may be worn, or the belt may be stiff.The timer will need oil, and probably a cleaning. Oiling the fan and rear generator bearing may help. Everything on the vehicle that moves needs oil or grease, including the hand crank bushing and front motor mount.
Model T engines all make some noise, but it's best to determine what is causing a noise and if it indicates a problem or not.
Also examine the fan for any sign of cracking or loose rivets.

A T engine with no water pump would normally run around 200 F if sitting still.

Be ready for someone to tell you to pull the head and check to see if you have 2 piece valves as well as tearing apart the rear end to check for bronze or babbitt washers. The coils, timer, box will be problematic as they were originally as evidenced by the multitude of accessories offered to correct them.

The switch plate if original will have a number on it where the key goes in. This is the key number and often can be sourced on ebay. The generator cutout can be removed and replaced with a diode although with a charged battery you can go a long time without needing to recharge. An orange triangle often is illegal if the vehicle is capable of x mph so it may bear looking into.

Borrow or buy a borescope to check valves, etc.
If the ignition system performs well, it's probably in at least fair condition. I've had very good service from a stock ignition system (with a New Day timer) over many thousands of miles. The only issues I've had with it all stemmed from a defective set of points.

Lang's lists the water outlet and the keys in my 2021 catalog (that's my newest one). Snyder's probably has them as well.

I did find a nozzle that was cut from an old radiator on ebay and have that on the way to me now. I've been told by 2 of the parts houses that Brassworks has not produced any outlet nozzles for resale for at least the last year and a half. I'm hoping the ebay one will work but if it won't I'm prepared to buy a new radiator. My motor is running very well now so I'm not inclined to pull it part to see whats inside. I do have a Depstech (chinese) boroscope that works pretty well so I will look around inside the next time I pull a plug or change the oil. That should be interesting! I'm pretty sure my engine rattle is coming from the fan bushings and shaft. I'll order new ones later this week. Also, i now suspect who ever last restored the truck did it in 1981 since all of my tires are Sears Allstate nylons with 1981 in the tire code. I have lots to work on but so far the only "wrong" thing I've found is my parking brake rods are made from 1/4 inch allthread and the little arms that work the E brakes point down so the rod runs below the frame instead of above the frame. I'm ordering new rods and pins so I can flip them and make things right. I did pull the rear wheels and I do have the lined brake shoes although a couple of rivets look like they were never installed so I have a little work to do there. Lots of fun!!!!

A two things I forgot to mention!

I accidentally got too close to a spark plug wire and caught the shock. Now thats a mistake I will not make again

I have the truck on jack stands so this was not an issue but I did have it start on me when I touched the hot wire to the coil box. I've read on other posts that this is common but never experience anything like that before on any vehicle I've worked on. I suspect this occurs when the engine is shut down with fuel in the compression stroke that doesn't get to fire but then does fire when a buzz box lights that plug. (like the old time charges they use to use on airplanes). I guess that means the engine is put together well so its holding some pressure in the cylinders due to slow bleed down.