MTFCA Forum

Need help on this one.

I have a 1927 Model T. My father restored it 30 years ago and now I am restoring it again. My spark and throttle control levers do not go far enough through the steering bracket. Spark does not go far enough to put on the part that the spark control rod hooks on to. The throttle lever does not even make it to the steering bracket. It is about a 1/4" short.

Everything was fine when I took it apart. No new parts were introduced other than new spark/throttle control levers. Yes, I did verify the old and the new are of the exact same length.

Pitman arm attaches fine. Radiator and body are in the correct position for the hood.

Seems like the only way I can make it work is to have the steering column mount on the outside of the firewall. I know this is wrong as I have pictures of it before I took anything apart.

I can probably get it to barely make it if I scrap of the paint on the firewall and steering column and shove the cab forward as much as possible. I would say it would barely make it. Just seems like I am missing something really obvious.

Any thoughts?

If you are using the same parts except for those rods, something is not aligned correctly. Did you have the body off? If so, is it on exactly as it was before? All the bolts through the chassis should line up and the firewall brackets in front should be aligned with the frame and the firewall. Did you re-bush the bracket at the base of the steering column there the steering rod goes through? Is the lower bracket bolted correctly through the frame with one bolt going through the wood block and frame? Send some pictures of those locations showing the detail. The column should be bolted inside the firewall.

Norm

If the body was off the chassis that’s probably the reason for the “shorter rods” .

Every little bit makes a difference if the body was removed. If you removed the body loosen the body to frame bolts, and try to move it up a bit if you can. Use a long nose punch to move the brackets and body with the bolts loose. Evidently something wasnt put exactly back exactly the same way if the body was off.

Can you compare the old rods with the new ones? Check the length and the location of the drilled holes carefully. If they are identical, then you may need to adjust the body, unless you can re-drill the holes the pins go through. Could the quadrants on the column be bent? I'd check everything, then determine the least invasive way to deal with it.

I would suggest getting the issue with the steering column sorted first, then go to the radiator/hood. The 1/4" being short of entering the hole, would maybe need to be doubled or more in relation to how far off it is.
Besides the body maybe being too far back, the wood mounting blocks might come into play if they are too thick or if you added pads under them. Do you have the firewall to frame brackets installed? If so, are they at right angle to the top of the frame? What about frame sag?

VasaTrail wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:34 am

Need help on this one.

I have a 1927 Model T. My father restored it 30 years ago and now I am restoring it again. My spark and throttle control levers do not go far enough through the steering bracket. Spark does not go far enough to put on the part that the spark control rod hooks on to. The throttle lever does not even make it to the steering bracket. It is about a 1/4" short.

Everything was fine when I took it apart. No new parts were introduced other than new spark/throttle control levers. Yes, I did verify the old and the new are of the exact same length.

Pitman arm attaches fine. Radiator and body are in the correct position for the hood.

Seems like the only way I can make it work is to have the steering column mount on the outside of the firewall. I know this is wrong as I have pictures of it before I took anything apart.

I can probably get it to barely make it if I scrap of the paint on the firewall and steering column and shove the cab forward as much as possible. I would say it would barely make it. Just seems like I am missing something really obvious.

Any thoughts?

Reviewing what you said:
1. Radiator & Body are in correct position for the hood.
2. You verified that the new rods are the same length as the old rod.
3. The pit arm attaches fine
If the pit arm is in the correct position it would follow that the steering column and firewall/body were in the correct position. Since you only said "the pit arm attaches fine" that doesn't necessarily mean it is in the correct position. It would help to have a picture of it before and after for comparison (or just an after shot). Pictures of the steering wheel & rods, mount to the firewall & steering bracket on the frame would also help.

NH , or Vaporizer carburetor? .... Do you foresee any difficulty in extending those rods at the bend sections to lengthen rod to fit ?.... ...adjusting spark rod and throttle rod length to fit application is permitted..... Recheck basic commutator position for proper ignition timing for starting with timing lever all the way up, .......without throttle rod attached to carburetor run warm engine and reduce speed setting to your acceptable idle speed then adjust rod to fit with lever up.

I go along with Norman Kling. If ,the rods lined up perfectly with the originals something has to be misaligned or installed incorrectly.

VasaTrail wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:34 am

Need help on this one.

I have a 1927 Model T. My father restored it 30 years ago and now I am restoring it again. My spark and throttle control levers do not go far enough through the steering bracket. Spark does not go far enough to put on the part that the spark control rod hooks on to. The throttle lever does not even make it to the steering bracket. It is about a 1/4" short.

Everything was fine when I took it apart. No new parts were introduced other than new spark/throttle control levers. Yes, I did verify the old and the new are of the exact same length.

Any thoughts?

With new rods, were new springs installed too under the cupped washers?, could be they aren't compressed enough to allow full length extension, check if the new rods are standing above the quadrant under the wheel.

Also be sure the frame steering bracket is correct for your '27 runabout. The cast in number on the bracket should be T-932C.




And the firewall bracket is placed correctly for your runabout, that bracket is two piece and has angle to allow column to fit correctly, with the flange for holding the upper floorboard.

The 1926 and 1927 models had the new steering ratio of 5 to 1 gearing compared to the earlier models using the four to one ratio. Steering assembly measurements differed. Possible you have the earlier 4 to 1 ratio set up?

So on closer inspection of the rods, it appears my father had the same issue when he put everything together. He had to enlarge the hole on the spark lever to get the clevis on the very end of the rod. After reading everyone's comments I had two choices. One was the powder coat on the column and the frame to firewall brackets. It is just too thick! I have found this issue with other areas that I had powder coated. I sanded down them down and painted them instead. The cab could also move forward a little. I had to really crank on the cab with a couple of clamps but I got it to move forward. With these changes, I have enough room to get everything together.

Steering bracket is correct for the vehicle.
These are the rods from the steering column not the spark/throttle adjuster rods that connect to the timer/carb.
5-1 is the steering gears.
Firewall bracket is installed correctly.
Springs and cups are brand new.
Quadrant is not bent.
Rods are the exact same length as the old rods.
New blocks were installed but they are the same dimensions as the old blocks.

Thanks everyone for your assistance and thoughts.

If your father had the same issue, I suspect that the rods are incorrect for the car.

Interesting thought on the possibility of having the incorrect levers. I bought the new ones from Lang's for the 26/27. Can someone please measure the length of their levers and let me know?

It's hard to get a precise measurement, but from the bend at the top to the bottom I have; spark-4 ft 3.5 inches, throttle-4 ft.

One quarter of an inch off is not much. You could get that much or more by just bending the lever up a little at the top.

I have the originals on my 27 which were replaced with a set from Snyder's. Since they are out of the car, measuring was no problem. The throttle rod is 48 1/2 inches from the top of the 90 degree bend at the top of the rod. The spark rod is 51 1/2 " from the bend to the bottom. My T is a touring car.

I checked the lengths. They are spot on.

Dale. ... Doesn't take much to adjust the Length of the throttle or spark rods either plus or minus.