OilyBill wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 3:24 pmVince, if you want to do all the work yourself, that is admirable.
After you have the rim and wheel in good shape, and a new tire to install. you might want to put it all together, and then take it to a place that does semi-truck tires, and ask them to put it in their cage to inflate it.
Tire workers around semis are well aware of how dangerous their tires are, and I doubt you will have any trouble convincing them to allow their cage to be used for a quick tire inflation. Offer them a $20 if they will do all the wheels/tires at the same time. That is CHEAP, even in nothing happens, and if something DOES happen, it will have been well worth the $20 for the safety factor.
Just my 2 pfennigs.
Kevin Pharis wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:29 pmThat rim spreader is for “split” rims, yours are “lock ring” rims. Two very different methods of securing “straight sided” tires prior to the “drop center” era.
Let the air out and use a few C clamps to compress the tire away from the lock ring. The tire bead shape retains the lock ring, so once the tire is compressed the ring can be removed relatively easily. Use a large screwdriver to unseat the end of the lock ring with the notch, and a smaller screwdriver to keep the ring from falling back in. Once the ring is started out of the groove, many times I can remove the other 3/4 without tools by pulling a bit at a time. Be careful not to bend or distort the ring during removal, once removed the ends need to come together and the ring should lay flat on the floor without “twist”.
Installing the lock ring should be of similar effort as removal. With the tire compressed away from the lock ring groove, many times no tools are needed to install the rings. Start by hooking the square cut end into the groove, then slowly spiral the ring around the rim. As stated before very similar to installing a piston ring. The harder you fight it, the harder it will fight you!
Always inspect your rims for cracks under the lock ring groove. Cracks can typically be seen from the painted side of the rim directly below the locking tab of the ring. If you have cracks you should look for new rims! This is where the “widow maker” term comes from. Once the crack gets big enough the rim would fail allowing the ring to blow off under the force of the tire. More commonly on big truck with 150 psi of pressure in the tire, but still a very real concern. I typically air up my tires in 10 psi increments. Inspect that the ring is seated early on, avoid the tire “popping” into the bead, and don’t stand in front of the wheel when airing up
Sheldon, so im clear, this airing up process takes place with the tire rim and ring combo off of the hub and spokes , correct ?Wayne Sheldon wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 5:15 am"Split rims" are a tricky subject. They are complicated in that there is so much to know and be aware of, serious safety issues, and even deadly consequences. Yet, once getting a bit familiar with them, they are simple in concept, and for the most part, easy to work with. In the first place, there are two totally different types of tire rims that are called "split rims"! For a hundred years both have been called that, and everyone simply expects whomever they are talking to to know which they are talking about.
Your rim tool (otherwise known as a split rim jack) is for the other type "split rims". That type is split crossways though the rim, allowing the rim to be collapsed into itself making the circumference small enough to remove and replace the tire easily. Getting the rim collapsed or expanded enough to latch the rim ends together is tricky. And the rims can be damaged, bent or twisted if the jack is used incorrectly. (Rims can also usually be straightened!)
But that is the other type. Mentioned here solely for information and reference.
Your TT rear rim is the other type. They are a multi-part removeable ring split around the circumference. Most are two part, with a single removeable ring, however others may be three or four part rims with two or even three removeable rings, and sometimes additional clamps to lock the ends of a ring together.
All of these "removeable ring split rims" are potentially dangerous, and can be fatal if not handled properly!!!! That said, they are not all that dangerous, provided proper care is taken while working with them. The most dangerous time is while airing up a tire that has been changed or repaired.
I and my family have had several pickups and somewhat larger trucks from the 1950s and 1960s that used removeable ring wheels. I did most of the tire changes and repairs myself for over thirty years. I also had a TT with the same rims as yours, and changed them a couple times.
I have aired up such rims many dozens of times myself, never had a cage to use. Ed aka #4 mentioned one of the important rules when airing up tires without a cage. Lay it face down, ring against the ground/asphalt. The reason for this is that the explosive force of a separation is divided equally between a roughly one pound ring and a thirty or more pound rim and tire! Guess which one will fly the farthest and be the most dangerous? But make no mistake about it. Even face down an explosive separation could cause serious injury.
Wrapping chain or rope around and around the rim and tire is another good thing to do to protect yourself from injury. Also I use a short piece of air-hose with valve connections on it, attached to the tire's valve, it allows me to do my work outside the line of fire if a ring should fly off.
That leads to my "rule number one" for when working on this type of rim. Make it a habit to never be in the "line of fire" should a ring decide to pop loose! Even if it is not yet ready for air.
It has been ten years since I had a pickup that used two-piece split rims, and a lot longer since heavier trucks (including the TT) that used them. Yet still today, if I walk through a parking lot by an older truck with such rims I get little flags waving inside my head if I get near the "line of fire" for such wheels. That is how ingrained my habit is to avoid that hazardous zone.
To answer your questions; "Are the clamps part of the hold that the ring presents ?
Can the wheel be aired up without the clamps ?"
No, and yes.
The six lugs or lug clamps and lug nuts hold the rim onto the wheel. In this case, and very common for the era, the words "rim" and "wheel" are NOT one and the same thing!!! I cannot stress this fact enough! The wheel is the wheel, and the rim is the rim. Most people born in the past eighty years think they are one and the same, but it wasn't always that way! (Still isn't!)
The six lug clamps do not hold the removeable ring onto the two-part rim! One can actually remove the ring and the tire from the rim, and reassemble them onto the rim while the rim remains clamped onto the wheel. And the rim can and usually is removed from the wheel by removing the six lug clamps with the tire and ring still on the rim.
One not easy to see until you get everything apart, is why they are tricky to get apart!
When looking at the literally hundreds of wheels and rims using the removeable ring systems to hold the tire onto the rim, is just how many variations there are to the theme! Rings like your TT uses along with dozens of other similar designs use a "split" ring, which makes them easier to work with. That split ring also makes them more dangerous than some other solid ring designs.
A very clever design to make them safer, is that the tire, once inflated, sits on top of an inner lip of the ring. Once it is aired up, the ring cannot work its way out so long as the tire is sitting on top of that inner lip. When you go to remove the tire from the rim, first let all the air out. As others mentioned, remove the valve core so that air can continue to escape while the tire is being worked on. Before attempting to remove the ring, push or press the outer bead of the tire inward toward the circumference center of the rim. That should remove the bead from on top of the inner lip of the ring. With the tire's bead pushed inward (only takes about a half inch but all the way around!), the ring should be carefully pried out, beginning at the split, then working all the way around the rim.
Once the ring is removed, it should be possible to remove the tire. It may or may not be easy. Some rims have a slight drop-center which might make it easier, or more difficult depending upon conditions. Often, tires that have been on a long time may be rust-bound onto the rim. Sometimes, getting a tool under and inside the tire's bead can help. I had made a couple "L" hooks to slip under the bead and twist to pull behind the bead and pull the tire out. A few minutes of effort making a simple tool out of quarter inch steel rod saved hours of struggle!
Before assembly, carefully clean and check the rim and ring for condition and make sure their fit is nice and straight all the way around! Good idea to paint them to prevent future rust issues.
It used to be, that BEST ADVICE was if a ring was bent or in any way damaged, it should be thrown away and a new one bought to replace it! That was great advice back when one could buy new rings that fit!!!!! Anymore? DO NOT throw those rings away! They can be straightened and repaired, usually easily. New ones are generally NOT available. Legal fears prevent anyone from manufacturing new ones in any quantity or size/style selection.
When you check for fit? If it doesn't fit really right? Fix it! Make sure the fit is right before reassembly. The tire must be pushed in enough for the lip to clear the tire bead, then the ring worked/snapped into place.
This is where things get potentially dangerous. Take precautions! Chains or ropes are a good idea (wrapped around and around the rim and tire over the ring. Stay AWAY from the line of fire! Do not be in front of the ring or within about sixty degrees of it! Use an extension air hose. work from the outer circumference sides!
As always, using cage is good advice, but most of us do not have access to one!
Begin by airing the tire up slowly. Put in a few psi, then check that the ring is still properly in place. Keep yourself to the outsides! Add a few more psi. Check the ring again. Somewhere around fifteen psi, the tire should begin to press outward. Be aware, it may do so slowly, or with a snap. Be very careful and keep away from the ring's line of fire!
If at any time, the ring dislodges in any way, let the air out until there is no pressure inside before attempting to reset the ring. You should be able to let the air out from your extension hose without getting into the line of fire.
Once the tire bead has pressed out and is sitting on the inner lip (if the ring has one, not all of them do), the tire and rim become "almost" as safe as most modern wheel/rims. Still, use reasonable caution, and finish airing up the tire.
Good luck! And be careful.
Just so you know. I have been doing this type tire repairs and changes myself since I was twelve (fifty years now!). As careful as I have always been with them? I have had a few rings dislodge while airing them up! It can happen, to anyone no matter how careful they are! Because I was being careful, and the pressure was low enough when the tire snapped and dislodged the ring, I never did have an explosive separation. I was able to let the air out and reset the ring without further incident. There wasn't yet enough pressure to force a separation. Disaster averted.
Some people add soap to the rim before airing these up. I "prefer" not to. However, if the tire hasn't seated out before 20 psi? Back the pressure down and add a little dish soap.
bagotcorner wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:32 amSheldon, so im clear, this airing up process takes place with the tire rim and ring combo off of the hub and spokes , correct ?Wayne Sheldon wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 5:15 am"Split rims" are a tricky subject. They are complicated in that there is so much to know and be aware of, serious safety issues, and even deadly consequences. Yet, once getting a bit familiar with them, they are simple in concept, and for the most part, easy to work with. In the first place, there are two totally different types of tire rims that are called "split rims"! For a hundred years both have been called that, and everyone simply expects whomever they are talking to to know which they are talking about.
Your rim tool (otherwise known as a split rim jack) is for the other type "split rims". That type is split crossways though the rim, allowing the rim to be collapsed into itself making the circumference small enough to remove and replace the tire easily. Getting the rim collapsed or expanded enough to latch the rim ends together is tricky. And the rims can be damaged, bent or twisted if the jack is used incorrectly. (Rims can also usually be straightened!)
But that is the other type. Mentioned here solely for information and reference.
Your TT rear rim is the other type. They are a multi-part removeable ring split around the circumference. Most are two part, with a single removeable ring, however others may be three or four part rims with two or even three removeable rings, and sometimes additional clamps to lock the ends of a ring together.
All of these "removeable ring split rims" are potentially dangerous, and can be fatal if not handled properly!!!! That said, they are not all that dangerous, provided proper care is taken while working with them. The most dangerous time is while airing up a tire that has been changed or repaired.
I and my family have had several pickups and somewhat larger trucks from the 1950s and 1960s that used removeable ring wheels. I did most of the tire changes and repairs myself for over thirty years. I also had a TT with the same rims as yours, and changed them a couple times.
I have aired up such rims many dozens of times myself, never had a cage to use. Ed aka #4 mentioned one of the important rules when airing up tires without a cage. Lay it face down, ring against the ground/asphalt. The reason for this is that the explosive force of a separation is divided equally between a roughly one pound ring and a thirty or more pound rim and tire! Guess which one will fly the farthest and be the most dangerous? But make no mistake about it. Even face down an explosive separation could cause serious injury.
Wrapping chain or rope around and around the rim and tire is another good thing to do to protect yourself from injury. Also I use a short piece of air-hose with valve connections on it, attached to the tire's valve, it allows me to do my work outside the line of fire if a ring should fly off.
That leads to my "rule number one" for when working on this type of rim. Make it a habit to never be in the "line of fire" should a ring decide to pop loose! Even if it is not yet ready for air.
It has been ten years since I had a pickup that used two-piece split rims, and a lot longer since heavier trucks (including the TT) that used them. Yet still today, if I walk through a parking lot by an older truck with such rims I get little flags waving inside my head if I get near the "line of fire" for such wheels. That is how ingrained my habit is to avoid that hazardous zone.
To answer your questions; "Are the clamps part of the hold that the ring presents ?
Can the wheel be aired up without the clamps ?"
No, and yes.
The six lugs or lug clamps and lug nuts hold the rim onto the wheel. In this case, and very common for the era, the words "rim" and "wheel" are NOT one and the same thing!!! I cannot stress this fact enough! The wheel is the wheel, and the rim is the rim. Most people born in the past eighty years think they are one and the same, but it wasn't always that way! (Still isn't!)
The six lug clamps do not hold the removeable ring onto the two-part rim! One can actually remove the ring and the tire from the rim, and reassemble them onto the rim while the rim remains clamped onto the wheel. And the rim can and usually is removed from the wheel by removing the six lug clamps with the tire and ring still on the rim.
One not easy to see until you get everything apart, is why they are tricky to get apart!
When looking at the literally hundreds of wheels and rims using the removeable ring systems to hold the tire onto the rim, is just how many variations there are to the theme! Rings like your TT uses along with dozens of other similar designs use a "split" ring, which makes them easier to work with. That split ring also makes them more dangerous than some other solid ring designs.
A very clever design to make them safer, is that the tire, once inflated, sits on top of an inner lip of the ring. Once it is aired up, the ring cannot work its way out so long as the tire is sitting on top of that inner lip. When you go to remove the tire from the rim, first let all the air out. As others mentioned, remove the valve core so that air can continue to escape while the tire is being worked on. Before attempting to remove the ring, push or press the outer bead of the tire inward toward the circumference center of the rim. That should remove the bead from on top of the inner lip of the ring. With the tire's bead pushed inward (only takes about a half inch but all the way around!), the ring should be carefully pried out, beginning at the split, then working all the way around the rim.
Once the ring is removed, it should be possible to remove the tire. It may or may not be easy. Some rims have a slight drop-center which might make it easier, or more difficult depending upon conditions. Often, tires that have been on a long time may be rust-bound onto the rim. Sometimes, getting a tool under and inside the tire's bead can help. I had made a couple "L" hooks to slip under the bead and twist to pull behind the bead and pull the tire out. A few minutes of effort making a simple tool out of quarter inch steel rod saved hours of struggle!
Before assembly, carefully clean and check the rim and ring for condition and make sure their fit is nice and straight all the way around! Good idea to paint them to prevent future rust issues.
It used to be, that BEST ADVICE was if a ring was bent or in any way damaged, it should be thrown away and a new one bought to replace it! That was great advice back when one could buy new rings that fit!!!!! Anymore? DO NOT throw those rings away! They can be straightened and repaired, usually easily. New ones are generally NOT available. Legal fears prevent anyone from manufacturing new ones in any quantity or size/style selection.
When you check for fit? If it doesn't fit really right? Fix it! Make sure the fit is right before reassembly. The tire must be pushed in enough for the lip to clear the tire bead, then the ring worked/snapped into place.
This is where things get potentially dangerous. Take precautions! Chains or ropes are a good idea (wrapped around and around the rim and tire over the ring. Stay AWAY from the line of fire! Do not be in front of the ring or within about sixty degrees of it! Use an extension air hose. work from the outer circumference sides!
As always, using cage is good advice, but most of us do not have access to one!
Begin by airing the tire up slowly. Put in a few psi, then check that the ring is still properly in place. Keep yourself to the outsides! Add a few more psi. Check the ring again. Somewhere around fifteen psi, the tire should begin to press outward. Be aware, it may do so slowly, or with a snap. Be very careful and keep away from the ring's line of fire!
If at any time, the ring dislodges in any way, let the air out until there is no pressure inside before attempting to reset the ring. You should be able to let the air out from your extension hose without getting into the line of fire.
Once the tire bead has pressed out and is sitting on the inner lip (if the ring has one, not all of them do), the tire and rim become "almost" as safe as most modern wheel/rims. Still, use reasonable caution, and finish airing up the tire.
Good luck! And be careful.
Just so you know. I have been doing this type tire repairs and changes myself since I was twelve (fifty years now!). As careful as I have always been with them? I have had a few rings dislodge while airing them up! It can happen, to anyone no matter how careful they are! Because I was being careful, and the pressure was low enough when the tire snapped and dislodged the ring, I never did have an explosive separation. I was able to let the air out and reset the ring without further incident. There wasn't yet enough pressure to force a separation. Disaster averted.
Some people add soap to the rim before airing these up. I "prefer" not to. However, if the tire hasn't seated out before 20 psi? Back the pressure down and add a little dish soap.
once aired up the assebly is then bolted up using the clamps?
Sorry for the likely simple question, i sure wish there was a video to watch .
If i get a feeling that i cant do it or that it is too unsafe , i would then take it to a tire shop and do it in a cage ,,then take that assembly back home and install it on the hub/spoke combo,,, does this sound safe? correct?
again , thanks for your help