MTFCA Forum

I picked up a deep sump oil pan and I would like to use it on my 1926 non pressurized engine. I have other speed items on the engine so this would be a neat period piece for the bottom end. Looks like an original pan extended to hold 2-3 more quarts. Sump hangs between the wishbones. Pan has a single drain port to drain the sump. Other than taking extra oil, any concerns running this on a non pressurized engine? Oil would fill the sump and pan and just spill back into the trans like a stock pan. Just want to do a sanity check before running this. Thanks!

First post. Picture? Why would you want so much more oil? Original pan is sufficient if you check it occassionally. The two oil holes in the pan is how you check the oil level. With only one hole, how would you check it? On the original, the shallow area under the rod bearings ensures the bearings have sufficient oil. Such a deep area between the wishbone might cause the bearings to not get the proper lubrication specially when going up hills. I’d worry about sloshing in such a deep pan without baffles. Jim Patrick

What other speed stuff? Dips on the rods? You may think about using a cut T pan mounted above to eliminate windage of the crank that may starve rod bearings. Also not a bad idea to tie the 2 bottoms together allowing the trans to pull oil from the sump where it should be cooler.

Yea, first post. Pictures won’t load…anyways, I didn’t build the engine but it’s a rajo bb, Winfield down draft carb, original Bosch distributor. Not sure what was done internally but the crank appears to be ground, smoothed and probably balanced.

I wanted to use it because it was a piece of 20’s speed equipment and went with the car. I figured the deep sump wouldn’t matter since the oil level would be to the top of the pan cover even with the deeper sump and travel back into the transmission sump like normal. Oil check/drain would be the same place as a stock T.

Hi Drew,
If you want to use the sump for astetics bolt it on under the inspection cover! The dips retain just enough oil to lube the engine if you remove it
without a pressureized crank you will have to add enough oil to bring the oil level up to the rods.Then when you go up hill you will starve the
front of the engine & going down hill you will flood the engine. With the oil level above the sump you will likely break all records for Model T oil
leaks. I dont think windage has much effect on a engine untill 3000-4000 rpm?
Craig.

Thanks. Wall hanger it is.

Craig Leach wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 27, 2023 10:56 am

Hi Drew,
If you want to use the sump for astetics bolt it on under the inspection cover! The dips retain just enough oil to lube the engine if you remove it
without a pressureized crank you will have to add enough oil to bring the oil level up to the rods.Then when you go up hill you will starve the
front of the engine & going down hill you will flood the engine. With the oil level above the sump you will likely break all records for Model T oil
leaks. I dont think windage has much effect on a engine untill 3000-4000 rpm?
Craig.

The dip tray is necessary as Craig described. "Windage" is necessary. This churned oil mist is what lubes the motor.
If you want to make the sump functional, you drill a hole between each of the dips. Heat & form a standpipe (looks like a volcano) thats about 1/2 - 5/8" high & about a 5/8 hole. Excess oil splashes thru the holes into the sump. A hose between the sump & crank case below the radius rod mount allows oil to flow onto the flywheel & re-slung. Excess Oil cycles thru being cooled.

"If you want to use the sump for aesthetics bolt it on under the inspection cover!"

True Craig. But it was easier to say than describing all you were which is why I mentioned using an original pan as well just with holes. A windage tray was the easiest way to describe how it might come into play. Basically drill a couple holes in it allowing for it to be used as a resivour while stopping the slosh.

Drew
If you aren’t going pressure oil, then please sell it to someone who will make a good use of it!!

Along similar thinking, I haven't done this, but would the same reasoning (i.e. using original inspection cover to maintain correct oil level for dips) apply if one were to use one of the aluminum pan extension plates (seem to be about 1/2" or so thick) to slightly lower the pan inspection cover just a minimum amount for a little extra oil capacity under the rods? Dropping the pan inspection cover so small an amount shouldn't increase the extra oil capacity over maybe 1/2 quart. The pan extension plate I am referring to is the one sold to lower the inspection plate away from the oil pan to gain clearance when using an A crank. I realize that sandwiching anything between the T pan and the T inspection cover just creates more places for leaks to occur. Just wondering it the slight bit of extra oil capacity would be worth it, or detrimental to it.

ModelTWoods wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:44 pm

Just wondering it the slight bit of extra oil capacity would be worth it, or detrimental to it.

Aluminum cooling fins can't hurt, nor can a settling section that could be removed and cleaned.

Drew, this is the pan you bought from me on Ebay. I made this at least 30 years ago. It was gas welded. I ran this on a non pressurized motor for years with no issues. I would be happy to buy it back from you if you decide not to use it.

Terry,
On the A spacer idea, I have added a fourth dip to a three dip pan with a 5/8" dam at the rear to retain more oil. Now the engine holds 5 Qts.
of oil to the top petcock ( when poured into the front ) This works fine going down the road but retains so much oil that the engine smokes if
left to idle for long periods of time as in a parade! The pan I did later has a 3/8" dam and does not have the same issue with smoking. but both
leak a little more than most when sitting for a while. The A spacer should be helpful going up hills where the dam in the rear does not as much
on steep hills. IMHO
Craig.

I have discovered the same over oiling with a tall dam. Also with a hi volume HH oil pick up.
As far as going up hill, the oil will drain back anyway rather quickly.
Your best shot @ front oiling is the hi volume oiler line until the line runs up past horizontal.(steeper hills)
I think I have maximized my front oil flow with the top of HH oiler & run the fitting into the dipper cover from below.