MTFCA Forum

If you could ask the spirit of Henry Ford some questions in a seance, what would they be?

Here are a few that come to mind, just to get things started:

1. Would you attribute the successful design elements of the Model T to your design team, or your own brilliance?
2. What is the truth about the assertion that the wooden shipping crates were re-purposed as floorboards?
3. What motor oil should I put in my Model T?

I understand your reasons for having the original ignition system in 1909 so that the owner was not dependent on a battery but -
Why when you added a battery, electric starter and generator in 1919 did you not replace the magneto, magnets, coil box, 4 trembler coils and timer with just a simple distributor???

How about this one:

"Do you regret that you were unable to reach a deal with Peter Robertson for use of the square-drive screw in the United States?"

Is it true that you moved the steering wheel to the left side of the Model T because Clara asked for it to be there so she didn't have to get out into the mud and manure in the middle of the road? As a follow-on, is it true that Clara was the only person in the entire world of whom you were afraid (as evidenced by the moving of the steering wheel)?

As a side note: a 1792 law mandated that vehicles meeting would pass to the right, as opposed to Britain where they passed to the left, said law probably to help make us different from our former colonial masters. That requirement meant that we drove on the right side of the road, steering on the right so that drivers could see the muddy edge of the road (no pavement, no middle lines, etc at the time). Since the vast majority of cars had the steering on the right (GM didn't switch until 1914) it was Mr. Ford and Model T that really cemented our driving on the right-hand side of the road. Or was it really Mrs. Ford who made the switch??????

Loftfield wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 03, 2023 8:47 am

is it true that Clara was the only person in the entire world of whom you were afraid?

Why Harry Bennett??

Serious question, of all the controversial decisions you made, what was your attraction to a tough guy scumbag thug, so much so you bypassed your own family (who proved themselves more than capable to keep your company alive LOOOONG past your death) to suck up to this person who was like a graduate of some Prison or something. Serious - I know people who spent decades in Folsom and San Quentin, known people who he fit right in with, and YOU FAWNED over one of HIS ilk??

I've studied Ford, his psychology, his meglomania, his rather "interestsing" political views... but his cozying up to this guy was maybe the one thing I just could NEVER understand. Bennet was a psychotic bad guy, and it was like HF did EVERYTHING he could to saddle up to him.

Who are the other's in the picture with you?

Ford lived in tough times. He was wealthy and famous. He needed a Harry Bennet, and backup Bennets.
We still have Harry Bennets and backup Bennets today, now commonly called bodyguards, Security, Secret Service, Air Marshals, etc.

Keep in mind that there are people today who still despise Henry Ford and others like him, both contemporary and historical.
Great wealth and a high profile made you a tempting target for freelance lunatics and thieves as well as organized crackpots,thieves, and thugs of various persuasions in Henry Ford's time, and that's still true today. He didn't have the luxury of knowing his employees on a personal basis.
He had to be wary.
High profile assassinations were all too common in Ford's time, and violent Unionists , Anarchists, Bolsheviks, and others were agitating and even rioting against both business and political figures. During both world wars, saboteurs were a big concern.

As to the OP - I like the first question, I know the answer to the second, and Henry probably could not answer the third due to the advances in lubricants since his death.

Though Ford was a political figure in his day, I hope this thread spends its time on questions about his cars and doesn't get side-tracked about social issues.

Henry, why did you stay with the rear wheels only trany band brake so long after everyone else had stronger/better systems?

Henry, why did you stay with your steering design so long when all the other builders had better/safer systems by the mid teens?

Loftfield wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 03, 2023 8:47 am

Is it true that you moved the steering wheel to the left side of the Model T because Clara asked for it to be there so she didn't have to get out into the mud and manure in the middle of the road? As a follow-on, is it true that Clara was the only person in the entire world of whom you were afraid (as evidenced by the moving of the steering wheel)?

As a side note: a 1792 law mandated that vehicles meeting would pass to the right, as opposed to Britain where they passed to the left, said law probably to help make us different from our former colonial masters. That requirement meant that we drove on the right side of the road, steering on the right so that drivers could see the muddy edge of the road (no pavement, no middle lines, etc at the time). Since the vast majority of cars had the steering on the right (GM didn't switch until 1914) it was Mr. Ford and Model T that really cemented our driving on the right-hand side of the road. Or was it really Mrs. Ford who made the switch??????

Why the British drive on the left! https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/W ... -the-left/
There is an historical reason for this; it’s all to do with keeping your sword hand free!
In the Middle Ages you never knew who you were going to meet when traveling on horseback. Most people are right-handed, so if a stranger passed by on the right of you, your right hand would be free to use your sword if required. (Similarly, most Norman castle staircases spiral in a clockwise direction going upwards, so the defending soldiers would be able to stab down around the twist but those attacking (going up the stairs) would not.)
Indeed the ‘keep to the left’ rule goes back even further in time; archaeologists have discovered evidence suggesting that the Romans drove carts and wagons on the left, and it is known that Roman soldiers always marched on the left.
This ‘rule of the road’ was officially sanctioned in 1300 AD when Pope Boniface VIII declared that all pilgrims traveling to Rome should keep to the left.
--
When things started to change.
This continued until the late 1700s when large wagons became popular for transporting goods. These wagons were drawn by several pairs of horses and had no driver’s seat. Instead, in order to control the horses, the driver sat on the horse at the back left, thus keeping his whip hand free. Sitting on the left however made it difficult to judge the traffic coming the other way, as anyone who has driven a left-hand drive car along the winding lanes of Britain will agree!
These huge wagons were best suited to the wide open spaces and large distances of Canada and the US, and the first keep-to-the-right law was passed in Pennsylvania in 1792, with many Canadian and US states following suit later. (So early cars were designed using wagon methods of construction & design. It would seem natural for them to follow wagon rules-of-the-road)
In France a decree of 1792 ordered traffic to keep to the “common” right and Napoleon later enforced the rule in all French territories.
--
In Britain there wasn’t much call for these massive wagons and the smaller British vehicles had seats for the driver to sit on behind the horses. As most people are right-handed, the driver would sit to the right of the seat so his whip hand was free.
Traffic congestion in 18th century London led to a law being passed to make all traffic on London Bridge keep to the left in order to reduce collisions. This rule was incorporated into the Highway Act of 1835 and was adopted throughout the British Empire.
--
There was a movement in the 20th century towards the harmonization of road laws in Europe and a gradual shift began from driving on the left to the right. The last Europeans to change from left to right were the Swedes who bravely made the change overnight on Dagen H (H Day), September 3rd 1967. At 4.50am all traffic in Sweden stopped for ten minutes before restarting, this time driving on the right.
--
--
Now that the "round-about" has returned to our roadways in place of 4-way stops in many intersections. The next generation of change to the clover-leaf is the Diverging Diamond where for a brief moment Americans will be driving on the Left side of the roadway.

"Mr Ford, you appear to be a tall person, why on earth hasn't the Model T have more leg room?"

What year did you really build the Quadricycle?

If I asked the "spirit of Henry Ford" a question in a seance, the answer I'd get would be whatever the charlatan running the farce would be likely to pull out of his/her arse.

My 'poligies for being a skeptic. If any of you fellers hold by this sort of thing, there's nothing stopping you from organizing a seance and getting the "low down" from Hank hisself ! It would make mighty interesting reading !

Really, you have a chance to talk to someone that has been dead for 75 years and all you can think of is Model T questions? I would ask if it is hot where you are and have you seen any of my friends and family?

Humblej wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:44 pm

Really, you have a chance to talk to someone that has been dead for 75 years and all you can think of is Model T questions? I would ask if it is hot where you are and have you seen any of my friends and family?

Now that is funny!

You had a brilliant, devoted son who loved you, so why were you such a jerk him and downplayed all of his ideas and accomplishments, many of which were better than yours. There was no one who was more qualified to pass the Ford empire onto than Edsel. A Ford, with your blood and dedication and ability, who would have taken Ford into the future and grown it to new heights, yet, you belittled him at every opportunity and released your goon Bennet on him to bully, threaten and try and toughen him up. You humiliated your own son at every turn and instead of retiring and passing the baton onto Edsel, you stayed on much longer than you should have, dragging the Company down with you and driving Edsel to an early grave.

jiminbartow wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:18 pm

You had a brilliant, devoted son who loved you, so why were you such a jerk him and downplayed all of his ideas and accomplishments, many of which were better than yours. There was no one who was more qualified to pass the Ford empire onto than Edsel. A Ford, with your blood and dedication and ability, who would have taken Ford into the future and grown it to new heights, yet, you belittled him at every opportunity and released your goon Bennet on him to bully, threaten and try and toughen him up. You humiliated your own son at every turn and instead of retiring and passing the baton onto Edsel, you stayed on much longer than you should have, dragging the Company down with you and driving Edsel to an early grave.

Thats what I wanted to know as well...

Susanne wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 04, 2023 12:36 am

jiminbartow wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:18 pm

You had a brilliant, devoted son who loved you, so why were you such a jerk him and downplayed all of his ideas and accomplishments, many of which were better than yours. There was no one who was more qualified to pass the Ford empire onto than Edsel. A Ford, with your blood and dedication and ability, who would have taken Ford into the future and grown it to new heights, yet, you belittled him at every opportunity and released your goon Bennet on him to bully, threaten and try and toughen him up. You humiliated your own son at every turn and instead of retiring and passing the baton onto Edsel, you stayed on much longer than you should have, dragging the Company down with you and driving Edsel to an early grave.

Thats what I wanted to know as well...

Yes, Henry Ford, why weren't you the perfect father?

I think it's because like all human beings, he was a flawed person. Becasue he made the cars we all love, (most of the time anyway), we would like him to be the perfect "all-around" hero. Well, he wasn't. He was just a man, with all the flaws, weaknesses, and biases of his time. Not much different than all of us really.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 03, 2023 9:59 am

Ford lived in tough times. He was wealthy and famous. He needed a Harry Bennet, and backup Bennets.
We still have Harry Bennets and backup Bennets today, now commonly called bodyguards, Security, Secret Service, Air Marshals, etc.

Henry made have needed security, as people do today, but nobody needed a psycopath like Harry Bennet. Not then, and not now.

If he were to answer truthfully, the Dahlinger story has fascinated me. Evangeline's house still stands, and is likely occupied. Ford vehicles both current and past can be seen on the grounds. Was he really Henry's son?

Goons abounded on all sides during the early 20th Century. Whole "civilized " nations chose to empower some of History's most vicious goons and devotedly followed them straight into hell. Ford lived in "interesting times", and it's a wonder he was able to survive and kept control of his enterprise through those tumultous times. Intra-family strife was all too common then, and it remains so today, perhaps especially so in high profile families.

Post deleted by poster, as it was veering off topic.

I sense the earth shifting and this thread possibly heading to the OT world. Later posts are more speculative answers than questions as the OP requested. These responses wouldn't capture any points on Jeopardy.

'So, Henry, will you please explain your perceived love-hate relationship with the Ford Model K?'

tdump wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:06 pm

"Mr Ford, you appear to be a tall person, why on earth hasn't the Model T have more leg room?"

In 1900 the average height of an American male was three inches less then it is today.

Sorry. This is a very interesting topic as is. I deleted all of my posts that had nothing to do with the original question so, hopefully it will get back on track. Jim Patrick

A lot of questions have been posed that, if could be asked, would likely be seen as rude, or meant to be embarrassing. I'm sure we could come up with dozens like that. I would like to think that if given the chance, we could all somehow manage to be respectful and polite and to raise ourselves beyond the tenor of what might be used in political debates these days.

Personally, my favorite question so far has been, "What did you really think of the Model K?" Maybe if Rob H. is very good... or very bad... depending upon Henry's home address these days, he can ask in "person".

Henry Ford seems to have developed an aversion to fancy rigs fairly early on. Edsel had a notable flair for style and color, which Henry had no use for. That may have been a friction point between the two. I wonder how much anyone outside of the family actually knows about their relationship.

I think Henry dedicated his efforts toward putting rural people on wheels. As for big city folk, they already had what we call public transport, and small towns were "walkable" for the most part. The basic, low cost, rugged Model T liberated the country folk from isolation. Ford didn't offer anything like the K again until Lincoln was purchased,and even then, the Model T remained the principle product.

I'd like to ask why US production wheels did not adopt the double taper on the butt end of the spokes. It would sure make rebuilding wheels much easier for you blokes.

Allan from down under.

I am surprised that people find the Henry/Edsel friction hard to understand.
To say that Henry was frugal is the ultimate understatement. I grew up around
many people not much younger than Henry that exhibited a frugal life paradigm
that is simply unknown in mainstream consumerist America today. Henry was
ALL THAT. On the flip side was trendy and fashion and all that comes with keeping
up with that. Like oil to Henry's water. Henry wanted basic. Nothing more, nothing
less. Edsel was all about trends and fashion, and Henry was none-too-pleased with
that BS, especially out of his own kid. The fact that the Improved Car and the Model
A happened at all was simply because, in spite of his stubborn willfulness to dig his
heels in on whatever he believed in, Henry WAS a businessman deep down, and Edsel
(and others) made the hard business argument that Henry's T was not going to hold
up against a changing auto market, and if FOMOCO was going to remain viable, Henry
was going to have to let it go and roll with the times. Henry was a stubborn #@!, but
he understood numbers and let Edsel have his way.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 04, 2023 6:49 pm

Henry Ford seems to have developed an aversion to fancy rigs fairly early on. Edsel had a notable flair for style and color, which Henry had no use for. That may have been a friction point between the two. I wonder how much anyone outside of the family actually knows about their relationship.

I think Henry dedicated his efforts toward putting rural people on wheels. As for big city folk, they already had what we call public transport, and small towns were "walkable" for the most part. The basic, low cost, rugged Model T liberated the country folk from isolation. Ford didn't offer anything like the K again until Lincoln was purchased,and even then, the Model T remained the principle product.

And it kind of fascinated me that after aquiring Lincoln from the Leylands, he did very little in updating Lincoln. I understood Edsel had a hand in that aquisition, just as he had in adapting the car to the FA Starting & Lighting system, the "racier" lines in '23, etc... as a way to maybe bring some new tech to Ford and make the car appealing to a wider customer base. So there's another question - or series of - what did he think originally of the addition of starting and batery lighting to his T? Did the Lincoln aquisition play a part in it? Also WHY buy a company that was so strikingly different than his vision - even the Trimotor was a bare bones plane... but the Lincoln was a differnt animal altogether.

Actually, this brings about something interesting to me - that if it worked simply, and simply worked, it seemed to be right in HF's wheelhouse. That's why the T was his baby - while mechanically complex (especially in the earliest of years) I suspect that HF's premise was "If it works, don't mess with it".The Lincoln V8 was nothing if NOT simple - maybe it was a way to get his foot in the door and do some R&D on what would become one of his greatest achievement 10 years later, the model 18 V-8?

The more I think on that - the more questions I have, both for HF and EAF...

WHY buy a company that was so strikingly different than his vision - even the Trimotor was a bare bones plane... but the Lincoln was a differnt animal altogether.

I believe it was for the satisfaction Ford took in firing Henry M. Leland and personally removing him from Lincoln headquarters.

Somehow, Henry never disowned Edsel. Astounding, considering what a monster he was.

I was always led to believe that Henry truly loved his son and the way he treated him was, to Henry, for his son’s own benefit. I think he struggled to understand Edsel and so was afraid his son needed toughening up and sculpting into something closer to himself. If I was given the opportunity to ask him something, I guess I would ask what he would have done differently, leaving the question’s topic up to him.

Shoulda named him Sue. That would have toughened him up.

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 04, 2023 6:42 am

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 03, 2023 9:59 am

Ford lived in tough times. He was wealthy and famous. He needed a Harry Bennet, and backup Bennets.
We still have Harry Bennets and backup Bennets today, now commonly called bodyguards, Security, Secret Service, Air Marshals, etc.

Henry made have needed security, as people do today, but nobody needed a psycopath like Harry Bennet. Not then, and not now.

I totally agree with the last line.

People who hated Ford had thugs. Armies of them.

The Ford Model T was a great gift to humankind and a big step forward for civilization, and for that we owe Henry Ford a large tribute.
But much like his mentor, Thomas Edison, his accomplishments and wealth gave him self-entitlement to become a monster, ruining many lives and nearly destroying the company he built. His final years were so deplorable, the US government intervened to have him replaced by his grandson.

Been unpacking a lot of stuff, and ran across my (to me cool) Delco Distributor for a late Leyland/early Ford Lincoln V8 (one of those rare treasures that for most of my life was one heck of a paperweight)... To me the most intriuging part of it (other than wondering if it could be rigged for a dual spark plug Rajo or Fronty head) is contemplating the whole Ford-Leyland dispute thing.

To me it also begs the question, looking at this obviously expensive contraption for the late 1920's, one that probably cost the same as one of his beloved T's, why, after basically telling the luxury car market to stuff it up their ear, did he buy a company thats stock in trade was competing with the likes of Pierce, Cadillac, Abner Doble, and Packard?

To fire one man? That, to me, would be like Musk spending a quarter of his fortune to buy Blue Horizons from Bezos to blow up his giant, um, rocket, to tell Jeff "haw haw". Then again, I certainly do not understand how the upper .0001% of the billionaire class think. But from a purely business standpoint, you don't dump s***loads of capital into buying out a company just to spite one person, you do it with a financial gain in the sights, like buying a body company (Mercury) much as Leyland did Fisher, to increase your vertical integration. He let Lincoln languish for years, while other companies were building much more refined vehicles, Ford kept Lincoln firmly stuck in the 1920's for a long time.

Then again... they'res always Fordlandia and Muscle Shoals to keep one wondering what HF had going through his head....

I understand the part of Henry Ford who was the old time traditional farmer. Being deeply cynical of mankind and often racist, I imagine as he became the world's richest man, he began to feel empowered to "set the world right."
Something no one can do, of course.