MTFCA Forum

A 1924 I'm working on now has an Engine Serial Number that dates it to an April 29, 1924 Made Date.

The numbers are not uniform in line or density which suggests a new engine block from the Ford Plant.

The block also has an Engine Casting Circle that suggest a 10 - 10 - 26 Casting Date.

Would that be rather late for having a casting date?

Jim
Your post brings to mind one of John Regans favorite sayings about Model T's
"The car is one hundred years old and has been worked on by 100 mechanics; What are the chances they all know what they were doing"?
Ron Patterson

Jim almost sure, unless it’s a Canadian block, Ford stopped the casting dates after 1921. The 26 may be a 20. If the casting date is in a circle it is month, year, & day, the month being the upper most number followed by year going clockwise then the day. Hope that helps. Best John

J1MGOLDEN wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 26, 2023 6:40 pm

A 1924 I'm working on now has an Engine Serial Number that dates it to an April 29, 1924 Made Date.

The numbers are not uniform in line or density which suggests a new engine block from the Ford Plant.

The block also has an Engine Casting Circle that suggest a 10 - 10 - 26 Casting Date.

Would that be rather late for having a casting date?

Does your block have HH mounting pad ? That would be expected with that cast date. If not, you may be misreading the casting code.

Please explain a HH Mounting pad!

I have seen all kinds out there, some cars that think they are a special one and the block is not correct for the year, Ford changed the blocks so many times through production and if you do not know the difference on the outside or inside most never know.

For instance the early 09-10 blocks have three casting dots on the inside and the rear web is really thin.

Jim I’m pretty sure HH stands for Hogshead. He’s talking about the boss on the back of the later block where the two bolts go through the top ears of the Hogshead for the late 1925 through 1927 motors and then bolt to the Back of the block just below the head.

JTT3 wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 26, 2023 10:18 pm

Jim I’m pretty sure HH stands for Hogshead. He’s talking about the boss on the back of the later block where the two bolts go through the top ears of the Hogshead for the late 1925 through 1927 motors and then bolt to the Back of the block just below the head.

Correct. Hogs Head.

I just got a call that assured me HH was Hogs Head.

That is interesting!

I got the engine out of the T yesterday and am going back tomorrow to disect the transmission.

The two holes were not drilled in the back of the block.

I may get a photo tomorrow of the cast ring.

Jim

Details of the Improved Car '26-'27 block to compare to earlier blocks.

Thanks Dan!

If I may join this thread with my own serial number / casting number conundrum, I'm trying to figure out the exact build date of my Model T, or at least the Engine...

My serial number is: 10114515
I've worked this out down to around 26th or 27th June 1924, using a formula I came up with.

The following is cast into the block, to the left of the serial number (there's no casting mark anywhere to the right, as seems to be common).
I'm unsure how to read / decode this one... Any ides or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Repeat, repeat, repeat. Canadian cast engine blocks continued to use casting dates (in the circle) several years after USA production stopped putting casting dates on the blocks. USA production stopped putting the casting date on blocks in late 1921 or early 1922.
Mold and pattern markings continued to be put onto block castings as part of the quality control system.
Molds were used to cast the molten iron in order to manufacture blocks. Molds wore out after some number of blocks had been done. As they wore out, repairs could be made until the mold became too worn or damaged. Patterns were used to make the molds. Patterns also wore out, and were repaired numerous times until they became too worn out, at which time a "pattern maker" (high up in the hierarchy of casting professionals!)would have to make a new pattern.
After a block was cast, it was inspected. Then beginning machining was done, and then inspected again. Each and every engine block was inspected numerous times as it went through the machining and assembly process. If any flaws or mistakes were found? Action was needed to make repairs and avoid additional failures.
That is what those numbers or letters are for. To identify which mold and which pattern were used, so that the cause of the failure could be quickly found and repaired or the offending piece replaced. Those markings only had meaning for the short time between the cast and the manufacture of the completed engine. Once the engine was completed, out the door or in a car, there was seldom any need to reference the specific mold or pattern. Day to day records may not have even been kept, and none are known to exist.
Given that the identification numbers are small (a few digits at most, for identifying two different items), it is likely that identification numbers cycled around over and over again. Blocks were handled in large batches, and probably known about when casting was done, so the numbers could be used over again a month later without causing any confusion.

Minor detail changes in engine blocks required changes in the patterns as well as the molds. Existing useful patterns and molds continued to be used until they wore out (they were expensive!). Hence the crossover time when both earlier and later versions of minor changes were being used. Casting dates continued to show up on some USA engine blocks well into 1922, well after other blocks no longer had the casting dates.

That "71" was scratched into the sand mold by hand after the pattern was drawn out. I retired as a molder/core maker from a foundry after almost 30 working. We used to scratch dates into pump molds before closing the mold up for pouring.
Craig