MTFCA Forum

Jim11787 wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:21 pm

Try googling Dauntless Geezer site. He is a member here but and was in a bad accident and recovering so I don’t believe he is on line right now. Here is one link. https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG98.html

Also see if they’re a local Model T chapter near you. I have found members very helpful and willing to share advice.

KMcoldcars wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 23, 2024 11:46 pm

I would suggest buying the Model T Encyclopedia by Bruce McCalley and the Model T Judging Standards by the MTFCI.

Tbird wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 7:24 am

Welcome!
Always good to see new people joining a hobby. Learning about the T will be very helpful to you. I suggest that you get in contact with the Tin Lizzie’s club that’s in Oxford FL
https://www.tinlizziefl.com/

There are many guys in the clubs that can be very helpful in knowing what to look for and stay away from when getting your first T. The early brass Ts 09-12 have year to year and sometimes month to month specific parts, that can be costly if you don’t know what you’re looking at.
You’re doing well in learning first before you get your first T. Have fun!

TWrenn wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 8:08 am

Pretty much what Mike said. Find a club. Buy books. Lurk this forum. It'll get you through stuff, and even confuse you! ha ha.
Your profile says you own a touring? Or is that "just a wish"? Regardless, not knowing your background, family details, etc. a touring is no doubt a good start, as they're very utilitarian in having room for friends to ride along and get hooked on this affliction also, as well as just plain room to haul junk with you!! I'm not afraid to take Clara (yes, you HAVE to name it!) to any store at any time. And it always turns into a one-car car show while there. Rotsa Ruck as they say, and welcome to the affliction

Rich P. Bingham wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 9:36 am

Beware if what you wish for ! The best advice is to find an active group and join them. Get to know the cars, ride in them, learn to drive one, and become familiar with their workings. There's a lot of difference between the wonderful machines you collect, and taking a model T for a drive. Too many folks get a T and then spend their time trying to make it into something else. Buy the best car you can afford, it will pay you back ! Best wishes for a lot of fun, interest, and new friends ! Welcome to the addiction !!

John kuehn wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 9:52 am

First and fore most is to get to know the Model T! Since your some what mechanically inclined by your interest in old typewriters that will help.

Be advised you’re dealing with 100 year old technology. That means no computers, driving speed 25-40 mph, no real brakes, no get up and go like the modern car you drive and etc.

Not trying to be negative but giving you advice so you won’t get discouraged. T’s are loads of fun and starting one up and hearing the four ignition coils singing when you get behind the wheel is really neat.
Model T’s aren’t toys so be careful and read all you can about them and how to start and operate one. And when in doubt read the instructions! Try to find a reprint of the original owners manual for T’s and that’s just for starters! Good luck and welcome to the Model T world.

jiminbartow wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 9:55 am

Many of us, including me, are also interested in old crank wind, outside horn Victor and Edison phonographs, Polyphon disc Music boxes, and antique clocks. Maybe it is because they are all wound by cranks and keys or remind us of a less complicated era in America.

Model T’s were manufactured for a little less than 19 years from 1908/09 to 1927. Until 1925, they had a body frame made of wood with sheet metal body panels nailed to the wooden frames. These wooden frames had complicated curves and joints and are very rarely found without the wood being dry rotted or damaged from having been left out in the elements for decades. Unless you are good at woodworking, you may want to consider buying a later Model T manufactured in 1926 and 1927. These are the only ones that were made of “improved” all steel bodies yet they still have the look and charm of the earlier Model T’s. I am including a picture of my 1926 coupe. Also, since so many were made (15,000,000) and so many still survive (probably hundreds of thousands), they are not very good investments for prices are still very low and the selling prices rarely compensate the owner/restorer for the years of work and cost of parts he has put into restoring his Model T. Restoration costs can easily exceed $20,000.00 so it is best if you can buy one that is already restored. Jim Patrick

PS. For reasons unknown to me, the 1926-‘27 Fordor had a wooden frame underneath the steel body panels and is extremely difficult to restore if the underlying wood is rotted.


IMG_6603.jpegIMG_6606.jpegIMG_1945.jpegIMG_1944.jpegIMG_1943.jpeg

Chris Barker wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:00 am

You could do worse than invest a few dollars in this:

https://www.amazon.com/Ford-Model-model ... 1845849914

Nowhere near as comprehensive as McCalley, but more aimed at people in your position.

John Codman wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:50 am

Some good advice here. My suggestion is decide what you really want. Will this T be primarily for driving and touring, or do you want a show car? If you want a show car, you need to have someone who really knows Model Ts to give it a hard look. A 100+ year-old car (especially a Model T) has had plenty of opportunity to have parts replaced with parts from a different year. Exchanging them for original parts can be time-consuming and expensive. If you are looking for a driver, a couple of incorrect parts for the model and year may not make any difference to you. Typically, in cars of equal condition, the older the T, the higher the price. If the car is of show quality, disregard the following, but if it's a driver, and hasn't had a radiator replacement in the last two or three decades, figure on a radiator replacement. A new radiator will be in the $1,000 range. More for a brass car. Lastly, (repeating what has been mentioned before) buy the best car that you can afford - it will be the least expensive in the long run.

erivera1990 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 2:25 pm

John Codman wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:50 am

Some good advice here. My suggestion is decide what you really want. Will this T be primarily for driving and touring, or do you want a show car? If you want a show car, you need to have someone who really knows Model Ts to give it a hard look. A 100+ year-old car (especially a Model T) has had plenty of opportunity to have parts replaced with parts from a different year. Exchanging them for original parts can be time-consuming and expensive. If you are looking for a driver, a couple of incorrect parts for the model and year may not make any difference to you. Typically, in cars of equal condition, the older the T, the higher the price. If the car is of show quality, disregard the following, but if it's a driver, and hasn't had a radiator replacement in the last two or three decades, figure on a radiator replacement. A new radiator will be in the $1,000 range. More for a brass car. Lastly, (repeating what has been mentioned before) buy the best car that you can afford - it will be the least expensive in the long run.

John,

I am not sure yet what I want (show car or a driver). Not sure how much a show or a driver car cost, that will be a factor. If I could find a Show (ish) car, restored it would be a good score.

Thank you for your advice!

Edwin

Norman Kling wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 11:01 am

I will agree with most of what has already been posted. Most important things to consider, especially with the earliest Brass T's is the condition of the body sheet metal and the wood. The early 1909's had wood body panels too. They can get rot, termites, powder post beetles, and carpenter ants. Look under where the car is parked for little dust particles looking like salt and pepper. An indication of insect infestation. Check sheet metal, especially the lower parts which are next to the wood for rust out or body work to disguise rust. All metal should be painted inside and outside including the part against the wood. Upholstery can be re done easily. For real leather it will be more expensive. Also check the top bows. Should be no rust out. They can rust from inside because they are rolled metal. The seams are not welded. This can be especially difficult in high humidity areas or coastal areas with salt in the air. Same can be true of radius rods under the car.
Anyway, you might pay more for a very good body, but it will cost you more to restore a bad one and hard to find good original parts. Also inspect the wood wheels. They should be tight and straight with little runout. Metal rims rust free.
The engine number might not actually be right for the year of the block, because it was common to grind off the number and stamp the number original to your car.
I would recommend you take along someone especially familiar with the year car you are looking at to help you inspect it. And try to familiarize yourself with the books by McCalley.
As for replacement parts, many internal parts in the engine and transmission have been replaced by reproduction parts. And no tires available today are exactly the same as the original tires available in the day.
Good Luck,
Norm

1925 Touring wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 11:50 am

Welcome to the addiction!
Be aware that model ts tend to multiply by themselves! Like others have said I would greatly consider joining a Model T Club. They are a great group of people and it lets you meet the members. It also helps you make connections which is always important.
Mitch Taylor from Australia has a very nice YouTube channel that has some informative videos. Lang's old car parts as a website that you can buy books and we all would strongly urge you to buy the Model T Ford service manual also known as the Bible it is a black book that is approximately an inch thick. It was to guide mechanics on working and repairing the Model T back when they were a regular car.
As far as knowing what to look for when buying a t, im not the most helpful on that because I am still learning myself.
Good luck, have fun, and happy t'ing!

Oldav8tor wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 11:57 am

Our club has helped many people with their first Model T. If it lacks good maintenance records, you should plan on pulling the rear end and at the very least inspecting it. There is a good chance the front axle and linkages will require attention as well. A careful inspection of the engine may show things like two-piece valves that need attention and if it's tired, the best route is to pull it and have it overhauled by a reputable rebuilder. A careful inspection of the transmission may show cracked drums or other issues that require repair. If you have an original, round-tube radiator, overheating might be a problem, especially where you live. If you have wooden-spoked wheels they may look good but may need rebuilding. Loose spokes or spokes where the tenon is all but rotted away are an accident waiting to happen. In short, you should be prepared to spend some money to get it into good touring condition.

If the car lacks a title you need to be aware of how difficult it will be to get one in your state. At the very least, it lowers the price. Same with cars that have been sitting for years.

Unfortunately, even the cars with great maintenance records sometimes require work. We've dealt with a couple of high-dollar, "totally restored" cars that turned out to be anything but. Taking a knowledgeable person with you to inspect the car will help you avoid some pitfalls but not all. Find a car priced where you have some cash left to make needed repairs and keep reminding yourself that a 100 year old car is bound to need some TLC.

Good luck! The end result is worth it. Remember, you're not only buying a classic car, but joining a large group of like-minded people with many social and travel opportunities. As one of our new members said, "The thing I like most about the Model T hobby is that it comes with friends!" A true, true statement....

1925 Touring wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 12:16 pm

Also, i might add, that brass era cars tend to be more expensive than the later black cars. The 1915s and 16s are about the cheapest of the brass cars. Theres a big differnce with prices between a 1909 touring and a 1915 or 16 touring. I believe theres an 09 touring or tourabout for 60 or 65000.
As you may have seen, th eres a classified vehicles section forum.
As for parts, its the same thing with prices. The black cars are the easiest to get parts for. The 26 27s are a little harder to get some parts. Although they do have a larger brake drum and emergency brake than the other cars. Im not sure about the parts for brass era cars just because i don't have one. (Yet)
When you look at a car, i would definitely recommend someone who is familiar with the Model T to go with you and check it out.

Erik Barrett wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 1:36 pm

Educate yourself about the cars as suggested here and then buy the best model T you can afford. It will cost you less in the long run. Almost all of them are worth less than it costs to restore them. 15’s are the cheapest brass cars. There is a big price increase in every year prior to that. This is a good time to enter the hobby as the market has tanked for them. As an example, I am taking a 24 roadster to a swap meet that a buyer will probably drive away for about 6K. Even the early cars can be had for less than a few years ago. We have a beautiful 1909 with all original available for about 20K less than it was worth five years ago. Owner is going to take a loss on it. Now is a good time to be in the market for a T, but it’s a good idea to look up a local club and meet some people who will be happy to share their knowledge with you and may have leads on cars available in your area.

erivera1990 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 2:38 pm

1925 Touring wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 11:50 am

Welcome to the addiction!
Be aware that model ts tend to multiply by themselves! Like others have said I would greatly consider joining a Model T Club. They are a great group of people and it lets you meet the members. It also helps you make connections which is always important.
Mitch Taylor from Australia has a very nice YouTube channel that has some informative videos. Lang's old car parts as a website that you can buy books and we all would strongly urge you to buy the Model T Ford service manual also known as the Bible it is a black book that is approximately an inch thick. It was to guide mechanics on working and repairing the Model T back when they were a regular car.
As far as knowing what to look for when buying a t, im not the most helpful on that because I am still learning myself.
Good luck, have fun, and happy t'ing!

Austin,
I subscribe to Mitch youtube page, also I am checking Lang's website. In regards of the Model T ford service manual, could a find a new one, or it would be an old book?

thank you
Edwin

1925 Touring wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 3:13 pm

erivera1990 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 2:38 pm

1925 Touring wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 11:50 am

Welcome to the addiction!
Be aware that model ts tend to multiply by themselves! Like others have said I would greatly consider joining a Model T Club. They are a great group of people and it lets you meet the members. It also helps you make connections which is always important.
Mitch Taylor from Australia has a very nice YouTube channel that has some informative videos. Lang's old car parts as a website that you can buy books and we all would strongly urge you to buy the Model T Ford service manual also known as the Bible it is a black book that is approximately an inch thick. It was to guide mechanics on working and repairing the Model T back when they were a regular car.
As far as knowing what to look for when buying a t, im not the most helpful on that because I am still learning myself.
Good luck, have fun, and happy t'ing!

Austin,
I subscribe to Mitch youtube page, also I am checking Lang's website. In regards of the Model T ford service manual, could a find a new one, or it would be an old book?

thank you
Edwin

The book is available from langs under the books and more section. It is a new copy. The pictures and the new copies aren't as good as the originals but they are a lot cheaper! I don't think you can find very many good original service Screenshot_20240124_140743_Chrome.jpgmanuals anymore they're old ones were green I believe.

1925 Touring wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 3:14 pm

https://www.modeltford.com/item/T1.aspx

Oldav8tor wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 3:35 pm

If your budget is 20k, try to find a car for under $12000. Believe me, there are plenty out there. List prices are all across the board but if you take your time investigating you'll find one. Hey, the search is a big part of the fun! While you're searching, educate yourself as much as you can so you'll have a better idea what you're looking at and what the common problems are. Some things are easy to fix, others not so.

If you join a local club there are always a few guys who know the market and hear of cars for sale. They'll often "know" the car or know someone who has a more intimate knowledge of it's condition. Also, if you see a car you like that is a distance away, there are often people on this forum who will scout it out for you before you make a long and possibly wasted journey.

Erik Barrett wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 5:16 pm

20K will buy a real nice 15/16.

jab35 wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:03 pm

Edwin: Welcome! With your background and stated interest I think you will be successful and happy in your quest. If you haven't read it already, the home page of MTFCA has a Resources link which provides copious information. The Encyclopedia sub-link is here: https://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/index.htm and it provides an abridged version of the McCally 'Encyclopedia' that is mentioned by others. The McCally publication is the 'gold standard' of T information. Sincerely, jb

A Whiteman wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 25, 2024 2:56 pm

Hi Edwin, welcome to the hobby!

Some other things to look at here on this site (some already mentioned above):
This web site has an encyclopedia section that can be helpful: https://www.mtfca.com/encyclopedia/
We have some great technical drawings done by Martynn Vowell, a member, that can be helpful understanding how bits work and fit: app.php/gallery/album/5
And a section with 'after-market accessories' that can become a fascination all of their own: app.php/gallery/album/75
Finally, 'google search' this site for a lot of information that is tucked away in years and years of threads and posts made here.

Kind regards
Adrian

bdtutton wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 26, 2024 2:00 pm

One other thing to think about.....
I almost made a big mistake purchasing my first Model T. I wanted either a 1914 Touring or a 1916 Center Door car. I was very excited and was looking forward to the day my new Model T would be sitting next to my 1930 model A. I am lucky that I did not find the Center Door car first because it is so tall that it would not have fit into either of my garages. Fortunately, I can fold down the top on my 1914 Touring car and get it through the door. Check the dimensions of the car you are buying before you get it home.

Good luck...Bryan

erivera1990 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:39 am

I will definitely go with a foldable top one. By any chance do you know what's the height a Center door car is? my garage is average.

Edwin

NealW wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 27, 2024 1:27 pm

erivera1990 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:39 am

I will definitely go with a foldable top one. By any chance do you know what's the height a Center door car is? my garage is average.

Edwin

I can't speak for a center door T, but if you have an "average" garage door then it is 7' tall. Our previous house had 7' garage doors and I needed to put the top down on our first T, a 21 touring, and the 11 touring that I restored after we sold the 21. Both had a "two man top" which were used on the touring cars prior to 1922. That was when they started coming with a "one man" top, which may not be as tall. Someone with one of those will have to comment on that.

At times I would just temporarily lower the top (not reposition the front bows) to get it either of them out of the garage. If we were going to drive with the top down anyway, then that wasn't a problem. Otherwise it was a minor annoyance. Runabout tops are not as tall, so I found myself driving our 15 runabout more often because I could just start it and go without messing with the top. It just barely was lower than the 7' garage door opening. We now live in a house with 8' garage doors and I can get either car in/out without putting the top down.

They call the tops for touring cars made prior to 1922 "two man" tops because it supposedly takes two people to put it up or down. You can easily learn to put one of those tops up or down by yourself if you stand in the back seat compartment while doing so. I almost never have anyone other than my wife help put our touring top up/down, because she's one of the few people that I trust to not let the top bow loose and end up scratching the car.

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 29, 2024 4:01 pm

Whenever discussions like this come up, several people suggest using the abridged encyclopedia available on this website.

Given that choice, I prefer the complete version. I would rather spend the extra dough because the purchase includes owners' manuals for every year, extensive parts coverage, a section on Models A through S (1903-1908) and other extras not found online.

I consider the complete encyclopedia well worth the extra dough.

I would post a link to the sourceI if if Knew how to do it with this temporary laptop.

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 30, 2024 2:00 pm

Yes. Bruce's encyclopedia, which you mentioned first, is the one."The First Parts Every New Model T Owner Should Buy" has a link to the online version I prefer. See the Model T pages on my website Dauntlessgeezer.com.