MTFCA Forum

I am building my last model t, it is going to be a 15 speedster. I have eliminated the mag and i am changing to 12 volt system. My question is.....
Would you go with a distributor, either from model t ranch style or bosch style, or would you go with a coil box and 4 coils and a timer? Looking for performance and reliability. Ease of maintenance.
Appreciate all KNOWLEDGEABLE answers.
Thank you

I was frustrated with not knowing the coil system, so I adapted a Model A distributor to my Speedster. I have learned much about the coil system on my stock Ts since then (thanks to the Forum). I still like the A distributor on my Speedster.

Distributors & external mounted magnetos were considered speed equipment mods in there day.

Coil box, four coils, and the E-Timer.

I run a twin spark distributor on my BB RAJO - Zoom - Zoom !

Moxie26 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 26, 2024 3:37 pm

Coil box, four coils, and the E-Timer.

Hear here!! I'm with you!

A speedster is not a stock Model T, so anything goes. For it to be a Model T only thing required is a Model T block. A good operating distributor would work fine. Coils are made to work best with magneto and timer. An e-timer is a fix for a bad or missing magneto but is also not stock. Anyway, I guess what I am trying to say, is either system should make the engine run, Coils and timer will actually work quite well with 12 volt battery, but then it takes modification to generator or alternator An alternator can also be a source of trouble because they tend to run hot on a T and also the gear often comes off.
So it is really up to the owner of the car what you do. Many modifications work very well, but be sure to have some spare parts with you when you are out, because some are not available from local auto parts stores or have to be ordered with a wait time. And other T owners on tours will not usually have replacements along.
Norm

I vote for distributor. Easy to install. Very reliable, easy to diagnose, easy to buy spare parts. And the coil doesn't need to be adjusted.

Art Mirtes

Moxie26 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 26, 2024 3:37 pm

Coil box, four coils, and the E-Timer.

My preferred choice.

WWW.MODELTETIMER.COM - my preferred choice also, and our 1926 Runabout has run flawlessly the last 12 years. Upon installation, you can choose between automatic spark advance, or conventional driver controlled spark advance.

So far I see most people prefer the E Timer, but when I checked on the web page there is nothing in stock. Are they still in business?

4 coils and an I - Timer.

Stu Tomlinson wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:06 pm

4 coils and an I - Timer.

Same I timer.

4 coils and an I Timer works just fine on 12 volts.

Hi Dino,
I'm a distributer fan but they also have there issues. There is something to be said for the charm of vibrator coils. Speedsters are a fun place to
experiment with things that are not as Henry intended & that is part of there charm. It is always fun to have someone ask what the h^%&#@^
is that under your hood. Just a Quick look in the the classifieds you will find coils & a K-W precision timer elevator ( the K-W doesn't use the
vibrators) but would be a set up that is both a sort of distributer & uses four T coils & should give you a happy & unique ignition system suitable
for a speedster.
Just thought I would throw that out as it has already crossed my mind as cool setup.
Craig.

When you added Performance, Reliability and ease of Maintenance requirements then the only true option is an E or I Timer.

I believe both are available from Mike Kossor at Mictel. I like the E because it doesn't require the coils to be properly adjusted and it also has a automatic or manual timing advance option. Both the E or I require absolutely No Maintenance and both will match or outperform the disy systems.

It is acceptable option for a speedster to run a disy system and not be called a Chevy.

No other timing device can compare to the E and I Timers for reliability as well!

It is a speedster, so you can go either way.

I like coils, but I have a dizzy on my speedster and it works fine. You can always change from one to the other.

The dizzy does not need a working magneto. Coils work better with a magneto in my opinion.

Do whatever you are most comfortable with.

Was wondering why you couldn't put an Etimer in a Timer Elevator
just an example --
--
Speedsters engine looks

dinosbunny wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:33 pm

So far I see most people prefer the E Timer, but when I checked on the web page there is nothing in stock. Are they still in business?

In any business,..... the factors of supply and demand... And the quality of parts available, play an important part of having any item produced..... Then again there's always people that do complain about anything they want to complain about, and then people who have confidence and respect..... Just my humble opinion.

dinosbunny wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 26, 2024 6:33 pm

So far I see most people prefer the E Timer, but when I checked on the web page there is nothing in stock. Are they still in business?

Yep, still in busines and in inventory, just out of the office this week don't want to disappoint anyone with slow shipping. Will be back on stock soon for quick shipment.

I'm no speed expert, but I don't think a distributor is what makes a speedster go faster. What it does, is allow you to reduce the weight of the car and add some zip by eliminating the magnets.

Hi Frank,
Yes that may be the best of both worlds. I would think that using a timer elevator ( designed to use a Ford timer ) would be less work than
redesigning a elevated timer though. The best thing about dizzies, elevated timers & timer elevators is they make it much easier to work on
the ignition.
Craig. This is a Model T Ranch dizzy mounted on a Atwater-Kent drive. I think this is one of the best & most reliable dizzies out there but like a timer
mounted on the end of the cam is a PITA to work on. I should note that other than lubing the point cam & checking the point gap I have not
done anything to the one on the firetruck for 5 or 6 years.

dinosbunny wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 26, 2024 2:42 pm

I am building my last model t, it is going to be a 15 speedster. I have eliminated the mag and i am changing to 12 volt system. My question is.....
Would you go with a distributor, either from model t ranch style or bosch style, or would you go with a coil box and 4 coils and a timer? Looking for performance and reliability. Ease of maintenance.
Appreciate all KNOWLEDGEABLE answers.
Thank you

"Looking for performance and reliability. Ease of maintenance. "
No question given your stated goals.
For performance you need an accurate & hot spark. A timer & coil system can provide this with a LOT of attention to detail. Real dedication.
4 Coils must fire @ the same time electrically. Whatever timer you select must make contact accurately @ all speeds.

A good Dizzy will easily provide performance, reliability & low maintenance. Politics aside.
A Bosch front plate would maintain era correctness.

I cant speak to the use of E or I timers, but I think they would be a better option than the stock coils & timer for the average T guy.

no mag? Distributor. It's a personal choice.

I'm surpriced Tom above don't point to his recent videos about his adventure with replacing an old distributor with a new and all his bumps on the road.
Actually I like the end result with what he call a Bosch adaptor as the lubrication of the drive is integrated with the cars and not dependent on greasing. Also as his customer wants automatic advance Tom had some surprices with that.
I do not say Tom has the answer, but at least it gives you something to consider in your own adventure.

Not mentioned yet so I dug the topic up would be the rpm difference between timer and dist. Depending on rpm a dist will be more reliable at higher rpm. Most in favor of coils and timer will "cruise" with their Ts rather than open them up as speedster owners often do. With less drag (windage) limiting factors can become the timer and coils. As the original post was referencing a speedster and the possibility of a mag (side or cross drive) was not mentioned a dist would be the logical choice.

My car averaged 54 MPH in the Montana 500 race running with Ford magneto and coils and a New Day timer.

limiting factors can become the timer and coils

Not with the E-Timer and stock coils!
Automatic Timing Advance continues to 2600 RPM with precision of +/- 1 degree on 12V.

With the E timer, you have the equivalent of a fully electronic distributor operating a separate coil for each cylinder, and you do not need the Ford magneto... or the points on each coil.

Mike K

Is there any difference in performance between the E-timer or the I-timer in a speedster setting with coils and a battery? I assume there are no magnets since a speedster would want to eliminate the weight.

As I understand it, the E-timer eliminates use of vibrator points at each coil and coil adjustment is no longer needed.
With the I-timer, each coil's point set is retained and coil adjustment is necessary for best performance.

I do suppose an electronic "timer" is a good option but at that point you have effectively gutted ford's system and converted to a modern ignition system as is common today employing individual coils for each cylinder timed off the camshaft. This can be a very reliable system hidden inside a traditional casing. Personally I view an aftermarket market distributor as a more period modification than electronic ignition disguised to make it look old but that's just my opinion.

Ford used 4 coils and a timer on the Model T. Primary voltage came from the flywheel low tension magneto, or dry cells, or a wet battery. As far as I know, Ford never built a Model T with a distributor.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Fri May 10, 2024 3:45 pm

Ford used 4 coils and a timer on the Model T. Primary voltage came from the flywheel low tension magneto, or dry cells, or a wet battery. As far as I know, Ford never built a Model T with a distributor.

Ford never made a Model T Speedster either.
The National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing, LLC (NASCAR) is an American auto racing sanctioning and operating company that is best known for stock car racing. ... and none of them are stock

Is there any difference in performance between the E-timer or the I-timer in a speedster setting with coils and a battery?

Pat has it right, the I-Timer only activates the coils precisely synchronized with piston position; ignition timing and engine performance still largely depend how well coil points are adjusted for equal and consistent firing time.

What is the start up torque of a stock model T engine with and with out the magneto magnets. I have a 26 without a mag with a distributor. A 26 with the original mag. T without the mag dies easily when starting to take off or in traffic. ( Not Fun) T with mag is like a bulldozer once your start it you can't hardly kill it. Starting up. In traffic, or plowing through a ditch bank. May be other factors involved. But I find a need to keep the revs up and cross my fingers to keep from killing the non mag engine when the car starts moving.

I'm with the e timer guys. With my hearing I don't need to hear the coils buzz on an I timer. I can't remember any time in eight, years I have even looked at my E timer on my roadster.
Forget the raised timer Frank. They just add extra parts and complexity with gear mesh, shaft wear etc. They were an advantage when servicing the timer, but an E timer needs no service.

Allan from down under.

My two cents (and probably not worth that), a speedster should have either a distributor or a high tension magneto. Speedsters were the reason many of these accessories were created. I’m all for taking these parts of collector’s shelves and putting them on a car. Is an accessory distributor or mag more or less reliable, I couldn’t say. But if you look at the old photos of nicely done speedsters that have these kinds of accessories.


Andy

AndyClary wrote: ↑

Sun May 19, 2024 9:40 pm

My two cents (and probably not worth that), a speedster should have either a distributor or a high tension magneto. Speedsters were the reason many of these accessories were created. I’m all for taking these parts of collector’s shelves and putting them on a car. Is an accessory distributor or mag more or less reliable, I couldn’t say. But if you look at the old photos of nicely done speedsters that have these kinds of accessories.


Andy

True

OP is looking for "performance and reliability. Ease of maintenance," While aesthetics may appeal to some, old time aesthetic solutions are not necessarily the answer to his request.If you can find a good working period magneto, you still need a mounting and drive system. likewise, a distributor needs a pair of unworn drive gears which mesh well. Both still run contact points.None of this applies with an E timer.

Allan from down under.

As to reliability, distributors with quality components have been reliable since Model Ts were new. Thousands of light aircraft fly with magnetos. If you buy 1.95 Chinese distributor parts your mileage may vary.

Andy

Distributors do have the advantage of being able to go into a parts house and pick up parts should you need them. Etimer has the advantage of looking original. However, the OP already stated it was a speedster so original looks are out the window. Another advantage of the distributor is that most any mechanic can look at it and diagnose. Some may consider an electronic box over points a positive some may consider it a negative I'll leave that up to the individual.

On a speedster?
Bosch front plate, hands down.