MTFCA Forum

27 chassis. Engine is said to run but froze and broke the head and pushed out a core plug. Tires decent, has newer radiator (2 yrs old). Body pulled for a hotrod. Offered $1500, he is wanting more.

Am I being to cheap?

A new radiator $1300 plus shipping; wheels & tires assumed usable $75-$100 each; frame & axles $500. $0 for motor, coils & coil box $100
it's the value of the radiator that makes your offer a bit cheap if its any good.
You could part out the generator, starter, manifold, carburetor, water pump , transmission, any accessories like the transmission braces ($10 used) . But the real question is what are you planning to do with it?

That is not a driving chassis, rolling chassis maybe. If when it froze it broke the head and pushed out the core plug it most likely has a cracked water jacket so the block is junk. Was the 2 year old radiator installed when the freeze happened because that may be scrap too. I would walk away from that deal and consider myself lucky.

Agree with Jeff. Walk away.

The cost of a few gallons of antifreeze cost the owner dearly.

Cost of getting these things into a useable condition is rising by the hour... so no... you're not
being cheap.

Mr. J Humble makes VERY good points!!!

IF (big IF and ONLY IF!) the two year old radiator was a good one to begin with (like a Berg's?), and still in "like new" condition? Then the $1500 would be a bargain.
If the radiator has been poorly cared for in any way (or frozen?), and with a likelihood the block isn't worth rebuilding? Then the seller should grab the first $1000 offer that comes along! And your $1500 offer is nowhere near "cheap".

If I owned that, I would take no less than $2,500.00 for it. If disassembled and sold part by part, I would get more. Jim Patrick.

Just recently sold three chassis with good engines. One with wire wheels and hubs for $1,000 each. Cars and parts are fetching much less these days due to the current economy.

Max $400-500 with all the unknowns.

Humblej wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 29, 2024 10:34 pm

That is not a driving chassis, rolling chassis maybe. If when it froze it broke the head and pushed out the core plug it most likely has a cracked water jacket so the block is junk. Was the 2 year old radiator installed when the freeze happened because that may be scrap too. I would walk away from that deal and consider myself lucky.

What he said...

Plus, it's not like this was a restored, painted, drivable chassis in the first place. The nice looking tires are probably 50 years old. The spokes look dry rotted.

Paperman,

Keep in mind that the gang on here usually just loves to buy low and sell high... Ask the question with reverse - like - I have this chassis to sell with that picture and...

So...for me who has done this stuff more often than my wife likes...I would have started at $1500 for what I see...willing to go $2000 if necessary. I'd consider the head and block trashed as a consequence and go from there. If the wheels are trashed on actual visit, I'd drop down to maybe 1700 tops...but thats me. Other than that, I'd walk on by.

Just one guys thoughts. (Be careful out there...lol...the son's back area of his acrerage has a collection of 2N and 8N tractors lined up...deals were just too good. He drives one, his other half asks about the others, he tells her yard art for now...it happens)

Apparently some folks aint worked as hard as i have to build up a chassis. to me if the radiator is good, that should be worth the 1500. If you pull the top cover on the transmission and the drums aint cracked, that's a good thing.

It's worth what a ready, willing and able buyer and ready, willing and able seller agree upon. You make me feel bad that I recently purchased a running, parade depot hack on a 27 body for $2,000. The seller met me at a car show where I had a T and he knew It would go to a good home and he wanted it out of his pole barn for other items.
Sometimes, it's the motivation that cements the deal, not the price.

It's his car and he can sell it for whatever he wants. But to a buyer, it's scrap metal value until proven otherwise. He could pull that radiator in 15 minutes, take it to a radiator shop and have it tested for $50 and then he has a leg to stand on. Until then, it's scrap metal. I am always amazed by vehicle sellers that represent a running engine that only needs a battery. For $100, buy the battery and hook it up and prove it. If not, then the buyer is taking all the risk and should make his offer accordingly.

JMO

Remember that every part on that chassis (except the tires, which by the way, look great) is an original 98 year old factory made part and will never be made by Ford again and becoming rarer by the day. Model T folks are notorious for undervaluing what they have. We don’t seem to consider the thousands of hours and material expense it takes to get our cars looking and operating the way they do and automatically assume we will have to take a loss and never be able to make back what we have invested in our T’s. That is not a good business model. Stupid, actually. We should be able to restore and enjoy our T’s and then, when ready to sell, make a modest profit instead of a hefty loss. It is our fault that our cars are not considered good investments because we always price our T’s for thousands less than what we have invested in them because “It’s a lowly Model T and 15 million of them were made and no one would want such a slow, complicated car anyway”. It should be noted that, without us and our labor of love and tremendous outlays of capital, there would be no Model T’s left for anyone to enjoy and take pleasure from. If, as a group, we would sell them for a realistic price reflecting what we have in them, we might see their real values increase, but if our mindset remains the way it is, the Model T value will always remain low and we will never see a good return on our investment. Jim Patrick

Tap the picture and expand with thumb and forefinger for a really good look.

Paperman wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:44 pm

Engine is said to run but froze and broke the head and pushed out a core plug.

There is a 99.9 % GUARANTEE that engine block is UNREPAIRABLE !

It is a ‘26-‘27 engine and those blocks have a very weak area in the roof of the valve gallery that cracks when frozen. If it froze enough to push out a core plug, then it is very very likely the water jacket is cracked inside the valve gallery and it is an area that is not typically repairable.

The opening comment ( said to have running engine but froze and broke the head) is an automatic price drop for me. If it is a correct chassis with the 27 rear end it’s a no more than 900.00. Just my opinion.
The 26-27 frame itself in good shape is not real common as they once were. That’s a plus. Hopefully the rear end is correct for 27 also. Can’t tell by the photo. And the question if the transmission is OK ?.. That’s another welllllll? The water pump? Not so much.
One man’s treasure may not be the other man’s treasure. Just sayin.

jiminbartow wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 01, 2024 9:59 am

It should be noted that, without us and our labor of love and tremendous outlays of capital, there would be no Model T’s left for anyone to enjoy and take pleasure from. If, as a group, we would sell them for a realistic price reflecting what we have in them, we might see their real values increase, but if our mindset remains the way it is, the Model T value will always remain low and we will never see a good return on our investment. Jim Patrick


IMG_8576.jpeg

Jim,

The implied definition of "labor of love" is a labor, done solely for the love of it, because no other renumeration will be gained from it.

The value of Model T's will remain low because not as many want to buy them as there are cars to sell. Supply & demand. The value does not increase simply because someone raises the price. The market sets the value... and market is small compared to the supply. Besides, I do not think the value happens to be low. You can easily spend upwards of $100K on the right Model T.

Last, if anyone decided to get into this hobby as an investment, they made an unwise decision. (Aside from the parts suppliers, who operate as a business and not a hobby) I really hope that you enter into your profit/loss analysis, the fun, adventure, learning, friendships & fellowship derived from your "investment". For my dollar, it's all been money well spent, with enormous returns.

If you're not getting it at your price it's not a bargain. Forget about parting it out apparently your not going to do that so that doesn't enter the picture at all and isn't relevant to what you should pay. The engine does not run. Period. That's your biggest no no. Thats what you've got to consider to be your largest outlay. Thousands if it's shot. Thousands if the rad isn't what the seller says it is. Much to consider BUT if the seller holds to a lot more walk.

If you are looking for a T, there are good running cars with good body and upholstery for sale which will cost you less than building one from the chassis up. If you are looking for the apparently good parts and could use most of them, maybe a good buy. But if you are just buying for spare parts, you can probably find someone who just wants to clean out their garage and will either give the parts or sell for a lower price. So it really depends on what you are looking for. Figure the engine and radiator are not useable. The wood wheels might be good or might need to be re-spoked. The tires look good in the picture, but could be old, hard, and cracked. Anyway, most likely even the useable parts might need to be rebuilt. The choice is yours.
Norm

I totally agree with poster about this hobby being an investment opportunity. The military vehicle hobby is very similar. Yes, you can flip something and make a little money to fund the hobby, but no one is setting up a business model to restore Model T's, Model A's or military vvehicles, pay overhead and employees and make money.
And, even if you do flip a vehicle and make a few bucks, the way to achieve that is when you buy the project, not when you sell it.

Things happen when they are meant to happen. If this isn't the right deal for you, the right deal is right around the corner. If you overpay and the right deal comes along next week, it is too late.
JMO

My opinion, which is worth what you paid for it... $1500 is the absolute top dollar I'd pay for it, and that's assuming the rear end, transmission, and wheels are good. Even then I'd be inclined to say closer to half that - it's not wearing any sort of radiator, and the quetion is why not? We know the block (and possibly the head) is toast, it's missing a lot just to make it a running chassis (never mmind the engine issue and the ??? radiator)...

So you'd offer $1500, which I think (again, my 0 bit opinion) is way high. I'd offer $750. If he says he wants mote than $1500, and won't budge, then I'd budge back into the modern iron and drive away, as you're going to be into it for more than it's worth to get it actually running, never mind a body.

At least 10 years ago, I bought, for $1000.00, a running, driving 27 chassis from a guy who removed the 27 coupe body to make a hot rod. It included everything this one does plus the radiator. At that time, he envisioned making a full fendered coupe and wouldn't sell the fenders running boards and splash aprons. A month later, he called and said they were for sale; he'd changed his mind. I bought all that for another $1,000.00. The car was a survivor from Kansas and was rust and dent free and all the sheet metal had been stripped and primed. All I had to do to use the sheet metal was to sand and paint. Now, I know this was at least 10 years ago, and there's been a lot of inflation since them, but since Covid in 2020, the economy has hurt a lot of people, too. Without a good, original radiator in the deal, I'd want a T chassis VERY BAD to pay more than $1,000.00 for this one.

Sounds like he is trying to fund his new Hot Rod project. If he doesn’t have eager buyers lined up around the block don’t budge on it. I don’t think $1500 is to cheap. The next question is how much more does he want for it?
Bryant

A frozen busted engine is a can of worms.
Guy called me trying to sell me one with same story. I told him we were too far apart and he did not even say a price. I told all I knew for sure might be good were the 4 connecting rods, and only worth $10 each as cores. The rest could well be scrap. Have seen it too many times.
Had a gent call wanting a reverse drum. I looked at 13 out of what were running transmissions before I found one not cracked.