MTFCA Forum

Happy Easter.

I've only driven the car in and out of the garage, about 50 feet forward and 50 back. When backing up, I tend to stop at the garage door and then push it back in because of visibility and close proximity to my other cars. The steering is very tight. I cannot move the steering wheel when the car is sitting still.

Is this normal?

I know it's not a modern car, but even moving my older MGs, I can turn the wheel to angle the wheels in the direction I'm trying to park it.

Yes, you don't have power steering. Rolling should be easy. Trying to turn the wheel when not moving can over stress the components.

Jack up the front end and see it you can turn it. Then you will know if there is somthing wrong. Turning a T when it’s sitting still isn’t easy to begin with. Even a 40’s or 50’s car without out power steering isn’t easy to turn without out moving to begin with.

Are the front tires a little low in pressure?

Your ‘25 tudor may have 4.50x21” tires without benefit of the improved ratio and 17” steering wheel. As you’re pushing the car, you could grab a front wheel and tweak it as you nudge the car into place.

By comparison, I can operate the steering on my ‘13 runabout at a dead halt, but it has 30x3” smooth tires, and is probably among the lightest of factory bodies.

John kuehn wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 31, 2024 11:41 am

Jack up the front end and see it you can turn it. Then you will know if there is somthing wrong. Turning a T when it’s sitting still isn’t easy to begin with. Even a 40’s or 50’s car without out power steering isn’t easy to turn without out moving to begin with.

Are the front tires a little low in pressure?

If you do jack up the car, do not jack from the center of the front axle. Jack each side up and use jack stands. Jacking from the middle can bend the axle.

If you are pushing a Model T and you need to change the steering direction while it is standing still, grab one of the front tires with your hands at the three and nine o'clock positions and adjust the direction of the wheels accordingly.

Any car is harder to steer when sitting still, and even with a '27 T roadster on smooth concrete with 4.40/4.50 X 21 tires it's difficult to turn the steering wheel when sitting still. It's best to avoid doing it if at all possible. One trick I read long ago in Popular Mechanix was to put layers of newspaper under the front tires if you needed to steer the car when sitting. But does anyone get newspapers anymore? If you have wood wheels, you may be able to grab two spokes out near the rim and both move the car and turn the front wheels as it moves. Or you might buy a lightweight 3" snatch block, or two of them, and some smooth rope and use it to haul the car into the garage.

If you're just rolling it inside the garage 10 ft, then I'd put
wheel dollies under the rear wheels and turn a front wheel by hand to roll it in straight.
If you go in crooked, you can position the car rear, remove and place
dollies under the front wheels to final position.

I was told by a much more knowledgeable T guy to
NEVER TURN THE STEERING WHEEL IF THE WHEELS ARE NOT MOVING!
I follow his instruction to this day and always recommend same.

Driveway to garage transition with car on dollies can be troublesome
if your garage has a rut or lip. Use a floor jack to take take the load off
the dolly wheels to make it over. I do this when needed.

4 dollies from Harbor Freight or a flea mkt a must for a Model T man.

Tire size affects ease of steering as stated previously.
Good luck!

How soon we forget when were growing up in the 50’s and 60’s what we did without and not thinking any thing about it. No auto AC most of the time and vent windows. No power windows, No power steering, These convinces were optional equipment.
Nowdays our modern cars come with these things as standard equipment almost all the time.
And our newer cars have REAL brakes while Model T’s don’t!

If you are only rolling around in the garage, you can up the air pressure to 50+ #'s

Just yank on a front wheel to wherever you want it. If you have clincher tyres, make sure they are up to pressure. I run all mine at 60psi. A flat tyre will always be harder to turn.

Allan from down under.

All good stuff. Thanks everyone.

I just did a stress analysis on the front axle. Lifting the front a model t at the center of the axle will never bend it. If it does bend, the axle is in very poor condition.

Pulling forward at the center of the axle is another story. The axle is much weaker in that direction, soi recommend to not pull forward or push backwards on the axle.

Art Mirtes

I could be spitting into the wind here, there has been certainly good advice & explanations on the why but there could be another couple reasons in addition to those given. You’re kingpins could be tightened to much & the bushings may not have been reamed correctly. Probably wrong but a thought to ponder. Like Rosanna Rosanna Danna would say if it ain’t one thing it’s another thing.

I’m with JTT3. What you need to check is the condition of the kingpins. There’s not much that will cause the wheel to be impossible to turn with the car standing still and that’s got to be in the top 2.

I do my own king pins on my MGB. Is there a reamer available for the model T and can they be done diy? I will say I noticed some play at these points.

Spindle bushing reamer: https://www.modeltford.com/item/2713RM.aspx

The close up of the king bolt bushings and radius arm bolt appears to me to show badly corroded (green) spindle bushings and severely rusted flip top oilers. Were these somehow exposed to acid fumes??? I'd work on freeing up those parts with the axle jacked up and wheels off the ground and see what is binding. IIRC, someone posted awhile back that a jug of acid was stored under the front of a T and the fumes rusted up the wishbone. Those spindle bushings with green oxide may have been gassed by acid????

vping wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:24 pm

I do my own king pins on my MGB. Is there a reamer available for the model T and can they be done diy? I will say I noticed some play at these points.

Others suggested that you jack up the front end and try the steering then. Did you do that?

Check the axle itself.
Sounds like a job for Stevens Front Axle tool.

A very simple check: Jack up the front axle using two axle stands. Put the car in neutral.

Simply turn the wheel back and fourth and it if turns pretty easy your OK.

Once you do that and if it’s doesn’t turn easily you can go from there. Unless your car has a front end that has issues it’s a typical T that happens to have 100 year tecnology.

jab35 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 02, 2024 12:52 am

Spindle bushing reamer: https://www.modeltford.com/item/2713RM.aspx

The close up of the king bolt bushings and radius arm bolt appears to me to show badly corroded (green) spindle bushings and severely rusted flip top oilers. Were these somehow exposed to acid fumes??? I'd work on freeing up those parts with the axle jacked up and wheels off the ground and see what is binding. IIRC, someone posted awhile back that a jug of acid was stored under the front of a T and the fumes rusted up the wishbone. Those spindle bushings with green oxide may have been gassed by acid????

Bingo! That's her. She's free with the wheels up and no binding. The acid fumes mainly surface rusted some parts and took off the paint. Base metal is very solid. The green patina bushings do need to be replaced. I noticed one side had very little play whereas the other has about .040".
Is this Stevens tool sometime that can be purchased?

Here is tool in action.
Thanks to Bill for making this years ago.
Sometimes you can find these tools for sale.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DNGT7P79vg

I made the tooling and still make the inserts.
I could be talked into making the tooling again, but it is not cheap. Dan

Here is link to my last ad for tooling so you can see what I am talking about.
viewtopic.php?t=36723

The Stevens tool is an awesome addition to your Model T tools, but only if you need one. It reestablishes the fit between the axle and the kingpins and restores the thread in the axle as well. But, you may not necessarily need that. See how well a new kingpin fits in the axle. If your axle threads are good and the upper hole in the axle is a good fit with the kingpin, then you're good to go. At that point, in addition to the new kingpin, you should only need new spindle bushings and a bushing reamer to size them.

That word IF is a mighty big word.
I have not seen a T front axle with good threads and no wear in the upper hole in years.
Can’t even find them at Hershey. Dan

Dan Hatch wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:03 pm

That word IF is a mighty big word.
I have not seen a T front axle with good threads and no wear in the upper hole in years.
Can’t even find them at Hershey. Dan

Guess I've been lucky...

Interesting. Not sure what happened. Everything was fine. I pulled the car out of the POs garage, on the trailer, to my house, into my garage and moved it around pushing as well as under it's own power. I got to thinking about one of your responses/questions. Do the wheels turn with the car up in the air?

I had to move the T over to work on my Bugeye. Needed to put her on skates to side her over. You were right. Totally locked. Since I know I have to redo the parts anyway, I started to disassemble. Don't the parts names yet but the arm at the bottom of the steering shaft was the first I took off at the ball. Steering shaft turns, so that's good. There are 2 horizontal bars over the wishbone. I removed these next. One of the 2 ball joints (the one at the steering arm) was packed with fine rust dust and I suspect that's the culprit. More to follow as I disassemble, derust, and repaint.

Up to this point, no one has really suggested..Clean and oil the bushings kingpins and joints, not to mention clean and repack wheel bearings. The car may move a little bit better for you.