MTFCA Forum

I am new with the model T, but what’s the way to start the motor when it’s cold and I am alone! The T is of 1915 a non electric starter. I’ve tried a few times playing with throttle and timer. But it’s a hard issue. I am also a little bit afraid for backfire ( lash ) when I change the timer too much. What’s the way to do this? Regards Tom Blikslager Netherlands

picture worth a thousand words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N6_bqsPSHs

How cold ? Mid-40s F shouldn’t require heroic measures, but “cold” as in “hasn’t run in a while”, hope it has been left with the clutch engaged. This will reduce cold oil drag when you disengage the high speed clutch.

Every T has its preferences for priming. Most common, with the mixture needle open one and a half turns, two or three quarter pulls on the crank at full choke is usually sufficient, more choking often floods the cylinders. Then, with the spark lever fully retarded, turn on battery ignition, and crank from “seven o’clock” position briskly.

If it’s really cold or balky, engage the high speed clutch, jack up the left rear wheel, use a jack- stand and block the wheels securely , and proceed. In the cold, warming the pan from beneath with a heat-lamp, and “starting fluid” (ether) can be helpful.

Before beginning to attempt a start, it’s a good idea to make sure that gasoline is flowing normally, spark ignition is optimal, and timing is set correctly.

Good luck, and please, ask any questions you may have on this forum, we’re here to help !!

Yes, if it could speak my broken wrist would tell you: "Sure, you can really hurt yourself if you do it wrong." It hurt so bad that I lay down on the ground and passed out. When I came to I drove one-handed to the hospital. With that experience, I preach safe starting whenever the subject comes up. Here's safe starting: www.dauntlessgeezer.com/DG101.html

I would go on, but my internet "service" is a hot mess this morning.

Prime with the ignition off using right hand on crank and left for the choke. Then turn the ignition on. Go around and crank with the LEFT hand starting at the 7:00 position of the crank. Pull up and over the top quickly and lift the hand so if the engine kicks the crank will not hit you. Keep the thumb on the same side of the crank with the fingers so the crank will not hook on your thumb.
Norm

To quote Harold Sharon, "If the car won't start, or at least attempt to start, after eight or ten pulls of the crank, ...finding the cause is a better use of time and energy." Timing, fuel, spark, etc. It's often something simple. It just can take a while to find it!

janthomas0 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 21, 2024 9:45 am

I am new with the model T, but what’s the way to start the motor when it’s cold and I am alone! The T is of 1915 a non electric starter. I’ve tried a few times playing with throttle and timer. But it’s a hard issue. I am also a little bit afraid for backfire ( lash ) when I change the timer too much. What’s the way to do this? Regards Tom Blikslager Netherlands

Have you started the car before when warmer or just concerned with starting in cold weather?

Tom,

Finding a friend is always the easiest way...that said...let's go to ground zero.

Do you think that your coils are good? The answer has to be yes to take advantage of what follows.

I am not a believer in using 12V to get around the issue. The previous owner of my 15 used to use a 12V dry cell as his ignition source, and have one of his shop people come to every outting to do the cranking...almost endlessly...lol. He passed away, I bought the car from the estate, and next time out it was firing up nicely on 6V.

So let's start. This is for battery voltage start.

1- Mechanically tune your spark rod to your timer. Spark rod up...engine just past top dead center on #1 cylinder. Is a coil buzzing when you source a battery voltage? Is it the coil for #1? Good to go. No 'buzz' you now have homework. Turn off voltage source, undo the rod between the timer and the spark linkage for now. Turn on voltage, and manually turn the timer clockwise until there is a strong 'buzz', now, go counter clockwise until the 'buzz' stops. Nudge it oh so little bit clockwise and stop. Remount the spark/timer connecting rod and bend it to fit while NOT moving either the timer or moving the spark lever. You are now mechanically timed correctly if your wiring is right, and on your way to having ease of mind on the wrist thing.

2- let's presume your carby works for now...we will revisit later. Close the needle valve and open 3/4-1 full turn.

3- With voltage off, move the spark down 2-3 clicks...move the fuel lever down just about twice that amount...go 'pull' 3 individual quarter turns of the crank on choke...then turn on key. You may get lucky and it starts by itself . but, if not now go do the quarter turn un-choked deal. It should start (?)

4- If started, now turn the carb adjust IN until you sense a stutter and stop or even back off just a tad.

5- Go for a ride. When shifting from low to high does it sputter? Open the carb valve another 1/4 turn. Sputter probably will go away. (Gas starvation through the needle valve almost always manifests itself as everything else but.)

6- Learn as part of your shutdown sequence to always go full stick 'up'. Learn as part of your start sequence to always check for full upward before anything else, and step one is moving the stick down 2-3 clicks before anything else...make it a habit.

7- Remember, if the spark stick is up and everything else in working order (no electrical shorts in timer, etc. You stand your best odds of NOT jointing the 'wrist club of Model T'

(This from a kid who started on big farm industrial type machinery that only had magneto start...hand crank, lol...and use to find the cranks somewhere on the other side of the field when I'd try to be big man on campus and spin start stuff and it only sometimes spinned backwards but almost allows caught stuck forward, so it was pull/duck/run as standard operating procedure...lol. ALL of my Model T are either 1/4 turn start, of have electric start...lol.)

Many thx my Friends,

The start is well and easy when it’s warm, but starting after a few days in the garage is the problem. I do exactly what’s discussed here but when starting it runs 1-2 seconds and I am too late to pull down the timer handle. So the T should run a little bit longer. In one of the films I saw a guy keep the throttle on a third. I’ll try this tomorrow again.

Part of the mystery MAY be in your last reply, "Starts well when warm...sit a few days"...nada

Have you cleaned and lubed your timer? IF you have a front cam leak (or some dust mixed in the squirt oil) and IF that puts a film on the contacts of the timer that is non-conductive, the 'wiper/roller/flap/brush has to sweep away the junk before proper contact is made and it then wants to work. (Been there / done that while using the Peterson permanent lube 'system' on one of my cars. Never went back to standard, I just dry spin it a bunch with ignition off before really attempt at starting...)

FWIW

janthomas0 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 21, 2024 2:45 pm

Many thx my Friends,

The start is well and easy when it’s warm, but starting after a few days in the garage is the problem. I do exactly what’s discussed here but when starting it runs 1-2 seconds and I am too late to pull down the timer handle. So the T should run a little bit longer. In one of the films I saw a guy keep the throttle on a third. I’ll try this tomorrow again.

Try opening the mixture another 1/8 turn.
You can also feather the choke to keep it running while you are still in front.
You need to find that right combination & stick to it.

When setting the mixture needle I start by winding the needle in to lean the mixture, just until the engine stumbles. Wind it out again until it sounds sweet. Note where the top is oriented. Then wind it out until it stumbles being too rich. Turn back down to get the optimal setting. It may well not be as far down as it was when you came back from the lean side.
Approaching the optimal setting from the rich side is better than running too lean.
Obviously, others have their own ideas.

Allan from down under.

One way I would NOT crank the T is the video given at the top

picture worth a thousand words. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N6_bqsPSHs

I cringe each time I see that, it is a broken arm waiting to happen.
1) don't (as advised by others above) put your thumb around the crank
2) don't use the left arm - right one only! A kick back will shatter the arm, not just the thumb.
3) just pull up, don't pull around and over the top. Kick back when pulling up with (only) throw the crank down and away from your arm.

Some may disagree, but then sometime you have to learn by doing I guess.

I grew up with Model T's in Northeast Ohio. Unlike most, I did not put my T down for the winter so learned how to start cold, meaning bone-chilling cold. Keep an incandescent trouble light under the transmission pan, helps a lot. I avoid heated garages because heated air is dry air, dries out wheels and body wood. In serious cold it is best to just accept the trouble, jack up one rear wheel, block well, engage high gear, and proceed as normal. The wheel acts as an additional flywheel. Once started you can begin to pull back the lever to disengage the transmission and engage the parking brake. When rear wheel stops you can stop engine, let wheel down, and re-start as per normal. When the temperature is just cool/cold, you can pretty safely advance the spark four or five notches before pulling the handle with ignition on. I prefer right hand starting, I think left hand starting puts the crank handle too close to your face (and teeth). My grandfather knocked out his front teeth hand cranking a Dort. All the other advice is good, no thumb around the crank handle, no pushing down on the crank, etc. If starting with battery ignition it is not necessary to give an almighty pull to spin the motor fast, no need to exhaust yourself on the crank. Since your car starts fine when warm there is no need to delve into the guts of the thing. You may need to give it a few more turns with the choke engaged before trying to start, and do stay by the choke handle, helps to tease the choke a bit as the engine tries to fire up. Best advice is move south. I now live in Western North Carolina, never too cold to start normally, frequently enjoy free starts even when "cold".

2) don't use the left arm - right one only! A kick back will shatter the arm, not just the thumb.
I prefer right hand starting, I think left hand starting puts the crank handle too close to your face (and teeth).

It amazes me to see experienced Model T guys recommend pulling with the right hand to start. For choking (ignition off), sure. Left hand to pull the choke wire, right to pull the crank. But pull with the right when the ignition is on? That's exactly how I got my BROKEN WRIST. That experience taught me that a kickback is more likely to inflict painful trouble when the crank (before you realize what's happening) instantly kicks up against your arm. If you're pulling with the left hand, a kickback is likely to pull the handle out of your hand. And if pulling the crank to start (with either hand) puts your face anywhere near the crank, analyze your procedure and change what you're doing to cause it.

Is my face anywhere near the crank? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKERRm95ARI
Nope.

signsup wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 21, 2024 10:40 am

picture worth a thousand words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N6_bqsPSHs

I agree with the other comments about the risk of using your right hand to start a T. Fortunately I'm left handed and it is easier for me to use that hand for starting; particularly since I start on magneto and need to be able to briskly crank it over from the 7 to 12 o'clock position.

Another thing that I noticed in the quoted video was that the guy choked it 4 complete rotations of the engine. I suspect that he flooded it, requiring some many cranks after that to get it started. I always considered a 1/4 turn pull one "crank" for priming, and never do more than 2-4 of those. Depending on the temperature, my Holley G equipped T will flood if I try do 4, 1/4 primes. Often 2 is only needed for the G, but our Holley H1 T often needs 4 to prime.

Fortunately I'm left handed...

It doesn't matter. This isn't handwriting, or pitching for the Yankees. It's just pulling. No dexterity required.

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 22, 2024 3:26 pm

Fortunately I'm left handed...

It doesn't matter. This isn't handwriting, or pitching for the Yankees. It's just pulling. No dexterity required.

Yes, I agree, but my left arm is stronger than my right, so it is easier for me to give it a fast 1/4 turn crank on starting with the magneto. That's what I meant!