MTFCA Forum

I just got a build record for a 1911. The Benson center provides their interpretations of the build record and then they give a scan of the build record itself. They also provided a "key" that explains some of the notations used on the build sheet. The key also identifies the various suppliers of lamps, tops, coil boxes, etc.

Here are a few puzzlers for me. The first is about body info. The build sheet, under "made by" seems to say K.H, or perhaps R.H. but that doesn't match any of the possibilities on the "key" (which were Beaudette/Pontiac, C.R. Wilson, Fox Bros., Hayes-American, and also "numerous others"). Does anyone know who is K.H. or R.H.?


Next, there is a note just below the checkmarks for grease cups and cotter pins that seems to say "Dash square". Does anyone know what that means?



And lastly is the shipping location. The Benson folks put a question mark on their interpretation sheet, which presumably means they can't make it out. Here is the image. Any sleuths have a guess?

I was once told by someone that knew about these things that if you have trouble reading your invoice it could be because they used carbon paper for a copy. And they did not get a fresh piece for each invoice.
He said to get the invoice 10 ahead of your car and 10 behind to help you with the reading. That way you might get a better understanding of what they were doing. Also the carbon paper might have been fresher therefore better copy.
Just relaying what I was told. Dan

By way what is your engine number? Wondering how close to mine you are.

That 'KH" notation is for Kelsey Herbert, as a body supplier to Ford.


Below is info from CoachBuilt.com
While a couple of Ford’s body suppliers furnished them completed bodies, that is, bodies ready to be mated with finished chassis on the assembly line, a large percentage of them furnished Ford with bodies in-the-white, composite bodies delivered without trim, paint, varnish and hardware. Ford’s bodies in-the-white were typically finished by American Auto Trimming, Windsor, Ontario based firm with a large satellite plant in Detroit.)

Initially most of the Model T’s bodies were supplied by Ford's existing auto body suppliers C.R. Wilson (1903) and Everitt Brothers (1908). O.J. Beaudette (1910), Kelsey-Herbert Co. (1910), American Body Co. (1911), Hayes Mfg. Co.(1911) Milburn Wagon Co. (1911) and Fisher Body Co.(1912), and the Kahler Co. (1915). Wm. Gray & Sons supplied Henry Ford’s Windsor assembly plant with automobile bodies from 1906-1912. Regardless of their origin, all of the Model T’s bodies were interchangeable, however the individual parts in a body would not necessarily fit a similar-looking body if it was made by a different manufacturer. Ford even built their own body plant in the mid-teens to help keep up with demand.


Just a guess, but the 'square dash' might mean your late '11 (May) got the dash style of the new '12? That change could have been done quickly by KH, as a smaller supplier to Ford, and perhaps didn't have inventory of the rounded dash?


And the ship to address appears to me the new owner name of "Dixon" and the state is "Mich", city hard to decipher, but maybe "Eastpointe"?

Thanks for the K.H., Dan.

I agree about the word "Dixon". I was wondering if the "ship to" state could be "Ind". The "I" doesn't look like a typical cursive "I". But that might allow the city to be Earl Park, Indiana. A small town. However, the word "Park" is written across the top of build sheet next to the Ford Motor Company script. And I have another 1911 build sheet for a car that has "Humeston" written in the same location. And that city is definitely the "shipped to" city. So I wonder if that means the "ship to" on this car must have the word "Park" in it.

More 1911 build sheet mystery.

This is a different vehicle. There are three issues here.

First, the vertical writing in the "Chassis Assembling" section. The first line appears to read "1910 side oil lamp brackets". But what is the next line? The Benson read the beginning as "1912" and I lean that way too. But after that it's fuzzy. If I hazard a guess I'd say the next word is "Fender" but can't be sure. After that, who knows.

The second issue is the vertical writing in the "Car Assembling" section. I think the third word is "Dash". The other three words I don't know but the first looks like a capital "G" to me, and the last word looks like is starts with "S", and may be an abbreviation "Sq" What do you guys think?

The third is the cursive script just below the "Cocoa Mats". It appears to me to end in "... Gear + Fender". But what are the first word(s)?

Maybe "less stripe on gear + fenders"? Meaning, I suppose, the car was not striped?? Hmm, but fenders weren't striped. How about "less strap on gear + fenders" maybe meaning the front leather straps for the top were eliminated? Just guessing here....

I like your guess on the words.

Looking at the "Chassis Assembly" writing a bit closer I think I'm seeing "1912 Front end......". What might that last word be?

Bob Solak wrote: ↑

Wed May 01, 2024 3:47 pm

I just got a build record for a 1911. The Benson center provides their interpretations of the build record and then they give a scan of the

And lastly is the shipping location. The Benson folks put a question mark on their interpretation sheet, which presumably means they can't make it out. Here is the image. Any sleuths have a guess?

what it says.png (74.34 KiB) Viewed 1699 times

Can the Shipped to be Earl Park, Ind (Indiana)
The Ordered By looks like Selby, Ill

Bob-
Were you simply looking a build sheets, or were these for surviving cars?

I'd love to see some 1911 bodies that are known to be Kelsey-Herbert, American Body Co., or Milburn.

: ^ )

Keith

At least you GOT build sheets from them! Long ago when I HAD an '11 Torpedo I sent in my check and info to get one for it and never did hear from them, except that they cashed my check! Buyer beware I guess!

KWTownsend wrote: ↑

Fri May 03, 2024 9:00 pm

Bob-
Were you simply looking a build sheets, or were these for surviving cars?

I'd love to see some 1911 bodies that are known to be Kelsey-Herbert, American Body Co., or Milburn.

: ^ )

Keith

Surviving cars. If you'd like photos of particular areas, I can take some. I would caution that there has definitely been some changes by a previous restorer/owner on the Kelsey-Herbert.

TWrenn wrote: ↑

Sat May 04, 2024 9:51 am

At least you GOT build sheets from them! Long ago when I HAD an '11 Torpedo I sent in my check and info to get one for it and never did hear from them, except that they cashed my check! Buyer beware I guess!

Interesting. I ordered a build sheet for my 1910 touring and didn't hear anything. I sent a follow up and it had gotten lost/forgotten, so they found it and sent it to me and returned my check.

I sent for my build sheet several years ago and here's the translated version. My car was purchased by my Grandfather sometime in the early 1950's from a used car deal in Falls City Nebraska I believe. Still trying to track down it's history from the day it left the Ford plant till when he purchased it. Now what is interesting is there is an Albion Nebraska, I can't discern from the original build sheet the state but the translated version says Michigan.