MTFCA Forum

Posted: **Fri May 31, 2024 9:53 pm**

So everything I’ve read regarding points starts with the geometry but then drops off at fill in the dents left by the stand off with a shim or washer but the point set and two stand off bits don’t even work on the surface plate.

Posted: **Fri May 31, 2024 10:16 pm**

What manufacture coils are you re-newing point sets ?

Posted: **Fri May 31, 2024 10:55 pm**

Moxie26 wrote: ↑
Fri May 31, 2024 10:16 pm
What manufacture coils are you re-newing point sets ?

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 7:27 am**

K - W style coils...... Refurbishing ignition coils is more than just replacing the top hardware. Hopefully by this point you have checked the capacitor, and or replaced the capacitor, checked the secondary coils for 3200 ohms, besides cleaning and polishing the three coil contacts that connect to the coil box..... The current run of KW coil points are a lot better than past production. The cushion spring has been more closely adjusted to average 0.010" clearance. Tension on the vibrator point and the cushion spring tension would have to be adjusted for electrical values..... Save your upper bridge coil points, you can snip off the attachment and use those as washers underneath the standoffs to compensate for wood compression so the new bridge will horizontally run parallel with the top of the wood coil case. Depending on past tightness, wood dehydration, or physical injury, ... two washers may be needed. After wire brushing your standoffs and post nuts install your new coil point set and be sure to have the points mate in exact mating position ...... Using your hand crank coil tester, achieve single spark and 1.3 amperage readings.

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:51 am**

The points that I bought are missing the bend in the spring steel that allows the two components to run parallel.

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:53 am**

The illustration you posted is of the "early" style of points - not used on later coils.

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:59 am**

Also,... The illustration is of a early brass top coil..... There is enough movement available of the vibrator and bridge point mounting studs/ nuts to allow movement front, back or sideways so the points may be installed point on point and then tightened down.

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:48 pm**

'The points that I bought are missing the bend in the spring steel that allows the two components to run parallel.'

Both 'arms' of the point set will be flat before assembly. After assembly the lower, movable (armature) point support will be flexed as shown in the drawing you posted. This will be the case for both the brass top and plain wood top coils. The 'flex' of the lower contact cantilever spring produces the force to close the contacts, then the increasing magnetism in the coil core eventually overcomes the spring force to open the circuit. Tuning the coil is the process of bending the lower spring support bridge up or down to decrease or increase spring force to resist the pull of the electromagnet until desired conditions (Time delay, primary coil current, etc) are reached and the contacts open, firing the plug. Have fun! jb

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:36 pm**

jab35 wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:48 pm
'The points that I bought are missing the bend in the spring steel that allows the two components to run parallel.'

Both 'arms' of the point set will be flat before assembly. After assembly the lower, movable (armature) point support will be flexed as shown in the drawing you posted. This will be the case for both the brass top and plain wood top coils. The 'flex' of the lower contact cantilever spring produces the force to close the contacts, then the increasing magnetism in the coil core eventually overcomes the spring force to open the circuit. Tuning the coil is the process of bending the lower spring support bridge up or down to decrease or increase spring force to resist the pull of the electromagnet until desired conditions (Time delay, primary coil current, etc) are reached and the contacts open, firing the plug. Have fun! jb

So my original question is more about the quality of the currently available parts and if they meet design intent.
The contacts are NOT parallel as shown in my attached photo on a controlled surface. Ironically the impressions in the coil top wood actually provide better conditions.

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:50 pm**

Once you install your points, see if you could physically adjust as in the pictures. With the bridge adjustment , adjust between vibrator and cushion spring points at 0.030"...... But as far as today's coil point manufacturing quality, the ones that are currently made and available at Snyder's or Lang's are QUALITY.

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:13 pm**

Moxie26 wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:50 pm
Once you install your points, see if you could physically adjust as in the pictures. With the bridge adjustment , adjust between vibrator and cushion spring points at 0.030".

Thanks for your patience, there’s a couple things going on.
One set, right out of the envelope, wouldn’t even sit flat on its mounting feet so I had to wrangle those then I adjusted the spacers with washers to get them back to the surface then with the spring angled up on the lowers there’s no way they can be parallel. Adjusting for the .03 is kind of independent of the angle that the spring approaches the cushion. I’ve had some luck with the coils but they aren’t perfect and the tension in the springs is definitely all over the place.
I’m hoping to get a condition where the contacts run true and cool so I can run the car on battery. Once it’s running I’ll attempt to adjust the tension based on current available from the magneto. My meter does not hand crank.

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:19 pm**

Moxie26 wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:50 pm
Once you install your points, see if you could physically adjust as in the pictures. With the bridge adjustment , adjust between vibrator and cushion spring points at 0.030"...... But as far as today's coil point manufacturing quality, the ones that are currently made and available at Snyder's or Lang's are QUALITY.

I got them somewhere else, I will buy 4 more sets from Langs and see if they are better.
There’s also humps in the contact so even if you get them concentric and parallel they still don’t have full contact.

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:43 pm**

As far as coil point quality, I believe the ones available today are made by one manufacturer and are sold by several of our vendors. As I stated before, I am very satisfied with the quality , and the electrical values that are set during testing do hold up very well. Today, there are several methods to adjust coil firing, I see that you do have a period Model T ammeter in your picture, is it by itself or is it part of a hand cranked coil tester ( HCCT ). Is there a possibility of a member in one of your local chapters in California that can calibrate your coils?.... .. With a hand crank coil tester, the electrical value would be an average of 1.3 ohms and a single spark at each of the 16 pulses in one revolution of the tester handle.

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:33 pm**

Moxie26 wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:43 pm
As far as coil point quality, I believe the ones available today are made by one manufacturer and are sold by several of our vendors. As I stated before, I am very satisfied with the quality , and the electrical values that are set during testing do hold up very well. Today, there are several methods to adjust coil firing, I see that you do have a period Model T ammeter in your picture, is it by itself or is it part of a hand cranked coil tester ( HCCT ). Is there a possibility of a member in one of your local chapters in California that can calibrate your coils?.... .. With a hand crank coil tester, the electrical value would be an average of 1.3 ohms and a single spark at each of the 16 pulses in one revolution of the tester handle.

The meter I have tests the magneto AND allows the coils to be adjusted but the caveat is that you need an extra coil so the car runs while you adjust the coil. I don’t know if I will be able to detect the number of pulses.

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:36 pm**

Meter/tester

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 5:38 pm**

Go to .... for YouTube videos .... . Mike Vaughn has a three video series on ignition coil rebuilding that will be helpful. .,....... modelttips.com

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 5:39 pm**

I see. You need an external power source(magneto) from your running T.
You need a better tester.
You basically have a buzz box set up with no power source.
Take your coils to a local member with an ECCT unit.

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 6:15 pm**

Hey speedyTinc..... Do you know of anyone in his California area that could help with coil rebuilding?

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:38 pm**

Moxie26 wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 01, 2024 6:15 pm
Hey speedyTinc..... Do you know of anyone in his California area that could help with coil rebuilding?

We have 2 guys with ecct's. Every thursday evening coils are tuned as needed.
I am sure if he brought his coils, we would gladly accommodate.
The main "tec" is a Montana 500 veteran.(Knows his stuff) El Cajon is about 130 miles from us.
That chapter is hosting the National this month. Someone local to him must have an ECCT?
As far as changing caps, I send & recommend coils to Ron the coil man.
I consider rebuilding & adjusting the points 2 seperate things. Even weak cap coils can be tuned.

Posted: **Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:18 pm**

speedytinc wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:38 pm

Moxie26 wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 01, 2024 6:15 pm
Hey speedyTinc..... Do you know of anyone in his California area that could help with coil rebuilding?
We have 2 guys with ecct's. Every thursday evening coils are tuned as needed.
I am sure if he brought his coils, we would gladly accommodate.
The main "tec" is a Montana 500 veteran.(Knows his stuff) El Cajon is about 130 miles from us.
That chapter is hosting the National this month. Someone local to him must have an ECCT?
As far as changing caps, I send & recommend coils to Ron the coil man.
I consider rebuilding & adjusting the points 2 seperate things. Even weak cap coils can be tuned.

Already changed the capacitors

Posted: **Sun Jun 02, 2024 2:44 am**

This video on coil testing and tuning should help answer your questions. https://youtu.be/RYcGD-8Ol3s?t=364

Posted: **Wed Jun 05, 2024 7:38 am**

Hey Ryanpad ..... Any progress with your coils yet?

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2024 2:05 am**

Moxie26 wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 05, 2024 7:38 am
Hey Ryanpad ..... Any progress with your coils yet?

Hey sorry for the late reply and thanks for asking.
I flattened the coil box tops with two part filler, installed the points sets; each set was slightly different the the rest with one being not even close. The top cushion springs seem to be consistent but the base from which the bottom springs are mounted are all over the place. The two “feet” weren’t even parallel to each other and the amount of spring pre-load or the angle at which they are set at initially varies. I reworked the latter but have yet to see if the tension produced is anywhere near what is required or matched between coils. The tungsten bits are as close to full contact as possible and I’ve got the .030 +\- .001

Posted: **Sun Jun 23, 2024 3:35 pm**

Thanks for the status update. Sounds like your coil are ready to tuning now that you have verified point contacts are good with proper point geometry. Find someone in your area with an ECCT coil tester to help tune all 4 coils for equal and consistent firing Time. You will be amazed at what a difference it makes in engine performance.

Posted: **Tue Jun 25, 2024 8:31 am**

This will help with point alignment. I rebuild a good amount of coils and found early on I was wasting a lot of time shimming the recessed wood top especially under the two spools that hold the bridge. One side maybe be .040 and the other side .020 or the top was warped. These coils are definitely showing their age but still very functional.

So to help I made a point pad that provides a nice flat surface for both points. I have found point alignment is much easier to archive which will allow the contact surface to wear more evenly.

If the recessed area is more than 1/16 I recommend to back fill them with some putty to help support the pad. If not that they are over tightened it could crack the pad.

See attachment.

David
Williamston T Works

Posted: **Wed Jun 26, 2024 1:20 pm**

Woody 23... Your work is exceptional and very appreciated.... With the little wood filler to fill in the post depressions, and using one of your pads, would there be a change in the initial point gap setting of 0.030" before adjusting electronically ?

Posted: **Thu Jun 27, 2024 8:37 am**

Hello, the pad will not change any settings when adjusting points.

I have found the pad actually allows the points to be more perpendicular to the core vs without it sometimes the points are at an angle to the core. This translates to more stable point performance.

Not all coils need them but I use it on most of them I rebuild. I also have used them on brass top coils, again not all but sometimes found it to help with point alignment.

The better the alignment the more even the points will wear.

Hope that helps and happy to answer any other questions.

David
Williamston T Works

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