MTFCA Forum

Hello.
After my last ride I heard a decent creaking while pushing my Lizzy into my garage. The noise came from right rear wheel.
My Lizzy (1916 Touring) has wooden spokes with not detachable rims.

We currently have very high temperature (35°C / 95F) and it is dry.

When strongly pressing with my thumb to the side of outer spoke ends, I can feel that they are very slightly moving within the wooden ring, giving exactly the same noise I heard.

What is the best method for fixing? At present the spokes are still in good condition, but they will rapidly wear out if I do noting.

I was suggested to pull the wheel and demount the brake drum and outer clamping ring. This will give access to inner ends of spokes.
Then I shall make a ring of thin steel band (little less than 1mm), sharpen it on one side, and press it in between hub and spokes.
This will force spokes towards rim/wooden ring a little bit, so they will be under tension again. But I wonder if (and how) a 2" long tube of such thin metal can be pressed in. Won't it crease before sliding in? For sure I will need a hydraulic press and a stamp to keep this thin ring in shape.

Good method or not? It sounds reasonable, but I have no idea if this will be lasting long.

Suggestions are welcome.

Coming Friday I have to renew the test badge, then I want to fix the spokes.

Shimming at the hub would press the spokes outward and would likely produce a gap between the tenon shoulders.
An old method of fixing loose spokes would be to use a spoke jack and shims. This older post discusses making spoke shims from thin washers.
https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=33590
I recall another post where someone described a homemade spoke jack.
Of course the preferred method would be to respoke your wheels. Read the later entries on the link above for warnings about shimming your spokes.

Hello KBurket.

Thanks a lot for pointing me to this interesting method.

So the entire rim (wooden ring where spokes sit in + metal rim) is lifted a little bit, then the shims are inserted, and the jack is released again?

What I do not know:
The spoke has a thinner peg on outer end. Is only this pinion inside the wooden ring, or is there also a little recess for the spoke end?

Soak in linseed oil for a week.

Hi, Plankhill.

How do I soak a 30" wheel in linseed oil the best way? I'd prefer to keep the wheel mounted.
My idea is a long and slim vat (a wooden frame, 8" tall, with some plastic inside). Then I jack up the wheel, place the vat below, and lower the wheel to very little above bottom. Then I fill it up with oil until the entire rim including the wooden ring is submerged and turn the wheel a bit further from time to time.

Is there a special reason for linseed oil, or can other oil (as used for impregnating wooden ceilings, furniture ...) be used, too ?

So from my understanding the oil is soaked into the wood and makes it swell again? Is this long lasting then?

IIRC, plant-oil will gum and harden on air, so it should become durable...
So it is for sure worth a try, all the wood will benefit from oiling.

Rainer

Best fix is to have the wheel rebuilt by an experienced wheel shop, Stuzman is one. Your steering and brakes go thru your wheels making them a major safety item. Your wheel spokes and fellows are over 100 years old, they shrink and swell with humidity changes. When they swell they dig into the adjacent wood permanently deforming one or both pieces resulting in them never being as tight as they were originally. When they get loose they will start to move around and wear, and wood makes a poor material for a bearing or pinion. To me, when your wood wheels start to make noise they are done.

I started getting clacking and took a wheel apart to investigate. I was surprised to see my wheel was shimmed with hacksaw blade pieces between the spokes. Worse was metal strips wrapped around the tenons which were badly worn. Thankfully I found this before I had a catastrophic failure. I had all four wheels rebuilt with new spokes and have peace of mind when driving now. I’m not an advocate of shimming old wood that gets stressed the way it does in a wheel, especially side forces on a turn, when your life is at stake.

How about soaking them in water? If the humidity is low with the high heat you are experiencing, the spokes may have shrunk a little.
Shimming is a permanent change and you do not seem interested in the Linseed Oil. A little hydration might be your better option until humidity returns to a "normal" level.

The key words are "hot and dry". Your spokes have shrunk. When faced with the same dilemma, I dismount the wheel and soak the whole thing in a cheap kiddie swimming pool from Walmart, usually overnight is sufficient. Spokes absorb water, expand, tight again. In between, washing the wheels with water helps.

Humblej wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 14, 2024 6:55 am

Best fix is to have the wheel rebuilt by an experienced wheel shop, Stuzman is one. Your steering and brakes go thru your wheels making them a major safety item. Your wheel spokes and fellows are over 100 years old, they shrink and swell with humidity changes. When they swell they dig into the adjacent wood permanently deforming one or both pieces resulting in them never being as tight as they were originally. When they get loose they will start to move around and wear, and wood makes a poor material for a bearing or pinion. To me, when your wood wheels start to make noise they are done.

I agree on having the wheel rebuilt, but for him Stutzman isn't an option. He is located in Austria and needs to find a wheel builder in Europe. Or he can purchase spokes, make a Reagan wheel press and rebuild it himself which may be his best option. His time issue is a problem.

If your car/wheels were assembled outside the US, the spokes provided by the usual vendors may not fit your wheel. I ran into this when replacing the spokes on my 27 Canadian built car with Kelsey, Canadian produced wheels. The spokes were a different length and had a different pattern where they fit together at the hub. I had my wheels rebuit by Bill Calimer http://www.calimerswheelshop.com/ . He made spokes to match the size and pattern of my originals and the result was excellent and the price was reasonable. Your may want to look into finding a wheelwright in your area who can do this kind of work or shipping your wheels to Bill or one of the other rebuilders available in the US.

I jacked up the wheel to have a close look.
It seems the spokes have not worn out the wooden wing, but the tension is lost. No radial free play, but also no pressure on the wooden ring is the result.

Using water makes me a bit nervous. My father in law used to do so with his hammer shafts, and this finally ended up in a much looser shafts. Without soaking the shaft before using a hammer, this was a really dangerous tool. - He actually destroyed the shaft with water.....
So I think about a more durable solution.

Oil will not cause the wood to expand,again, but is an excellent protection against more water.

So I get back to this magic "spoke-jack" (which is actually a "wood-rim-jack"). It will lift the rim, so I can insert a thin shim. I think a shim of 0.5 mm thickness should be sufficient, as this will be +1.0 mm in diameter. Is a wheel elastic enough or should I use 0.25 mm shims?
Because my spoke ends are elliptical, I think about laser-cutting shims from thin sheet steel in this shape. When cutting them in two halves, I cam insert them with very little Epoxy resin as glue towards the wooden ring, So they can't move, and protect the wooden ring from wear.
Finally soak the wood in oil and apply some new black paint.

What you think?
What diameter has the peg on the spoke? Let's assume the thickest possible.
Using a piece of steel pipe with cutout for spokes and a M20 bolt + nut should give a wonderful "spoke jack"

There have been a number of posts expaining how to repair wood felloe wheels. Breifly you remove the two felloes with spokes attached and tack two long shims to the outside of the felloes.. Press back in place and drill and install oversize rivits. Three of the four wheels on my 12 were done this way and are holding up fine. Ive done it on more than a couple cars.
Some use wood shims, I prefer steel. Thickness is from 6 to 12 thou. Most preheat the rim before reinstalling the felloes and spokes. I have had no long term success shimming between the spokes at the hub or using a spoke jack and shimming each spoke where it inserts into the felloe.

The method for repairing wood felloe wheels would be to remove the rivets that hold the wood fellow to the steel rim and use a steel band or wood veneer as a shim. Not something I have done but discussed in old threads.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/98511.html

Two key observations - non-demountable rim, WOOD FELLOE wheels, and HOT (95f), DRY weather.

If your wheels have been serviceably tight and sound in times of normal ambient humidity in your region, they have simply shrunk a wee bit in the current heat and drought.
In my opinion, a spoke jack and shims is a band-aid for steel felloe wheels only.

The simple, easy fix is to re-hydrate your wheels by soaking them in water. Hosing them down at intervals will probably be adequate.

Disclaimer: the following is long, windy, and probably impractical for most applications -
30+ years ago, I imported a 1922 Packard from the soggy rain-forests of western Massachusetts into the high and (exceptionally) dry intermountain West. Its artillery wheels (steel felloe) were sound and tighter than the proverbial bull’s butt in fly-time. As restoration proceeded, the spokes dried out and became very loose. The solution I applied was to soak the wheels in water until they had swelled to their previous dimensions, then placed them to soak in a tub containing polyethylene glycol (PEG), a stable, inert synthetic water-soluble wax. Through osmosis, PEG replaced the water content of the wooden spokes, but would not “dry out” again as water would.
The wheels remained tight and sound throughout the following 20 years I owned the car.

rainer wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 14, 2024 9:53 am

I jacked up the wheel to have a close look.
It seems the spokes have not worn out the wooden wing, but the tension is lost. No radial free play, but also no pressure on the wooden ring is the result.

Using water makes me a bit nervous. My father in law used to do so with his hammer shafts, and this finally ended up in a much looser shafts. Without soaking the shaft before using a hammer, this was a really dangerous tool. - He actually destroyed the shaft with water.....
So I think about a more durable solution.

Oil will not cause the wood to expand,again, but is an excellent protection against more water.

So I get back to this magic "spoke-jack" (which is actually a "wood-rim-jack"). It will lift the rim, so I can insert a thin shim. I think a shim of 0.5 mm thickness should be sufficient, as this will be +1.0 mm in diameter. Is a wheel elastic enough or should I use 0.25 mm shims?
Because my spoke ends are elliptical, I think about laser-cutting shims from thin sheet steel in this shape. When cutting them in two halves, I cam insert them with very little Epoxy resin as glue towards the wooden ring, So they can't move, and protect the wooden ring from wear.
Finally soak the wood in oil and apply some new black paint.

What you think?
What diameter has the peg on the spoke? Let's assume the thickest possible.
Using a piece of steel pipe with cutout for spokes and a M20 bolt + nut should give a wonderful "spoke jack"

The spoke jack & shim method is for demountable wheels where the spokes seat in the metal fellow.
Not applicable for your type of wheel. Somebody wasnt paying attention.
KBurket » Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:14 am method of a shim between the woodfellow & rim is a good permanent fix if the spokes & fellow wood is solid but not a tight fit to the rim.

This is way too long of a thread to read for my attention span and besides I flat out agree with Jeff Humble. REPLACE them! If your life isn't worth around $200 for a reliable wheel (or the other guys life) then you don't belong in a model T. Period. 2 years ago I had 3 wheels on my Fordor barely "talk" to me and they all went to Noah. Thats what credit cards are also for. Yes he does take them!

It helps if you know the proper terms.

The "wood ring" to which you refer is the felloe.

It helps if you know the proper terms.

The "wood ring" to which you refer is the felloe.

My father and I tightened up the original wheels of his 1917 touring by removing the rims, shimming the circumference of the felloes with veneer and then heating the rims and shrinking them back on the wheels. This method has been used by other hobbyists in Minnesota and not just on Model Ts.

A summary of the process is described in the thread link below that K Burket that posted earlier.

https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80257/98511.html

As indicated in the old thread above, I had posted in great detail how this was accomplished. However, that original thread is long gone.

Therefore, be aware that there are more details involved that I didn't originally post. For example, we had the rims sandblasted after they were removed from the wheels and then gave them a light coat of primer. Also, I did not describe how to fine tune/true the wheels after the rims were re-mounted via the method described in the Dykes Dykes Automobile and Gasoline Engine Encyclopedia.

Finally, in order to justify doing the above, the wood needs to be very sound and in excellent shape.

2 years ago I had 3 wheels on my Fordor barely "talk" to me and they all went to Noah.

Exactly correct. For steel-felloe wheels, you can use the Regan press and install new spokes yourself. For wood-felloe wheels you can skip all the Band-Aids (some of which don't even apply) and send your wheels to a good wheelwright. Noah Stutzman is best known (because of his experience and expertise) but there are others who will also do a good job for you.

https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG113.html

Anderson’s Wooden Wheels
Dale Anderson – Owner-Operator
Box 1433, Prince Albert, Saskatchewan
Canada S6V 5S9
Phone (306) 763-4049
Fax (306) 763-4018
dale@anderprop.com
http://www.anderprop.com/ww_index.html

Calimer's Wheel Shop
30 East North St.
Waynesboro, PA 17268
(717) 762-5056
http://www.calimerswheelshop.com/

Stutzman Wheel
33656 County Rd 12
Baltic, OH 43804
(330) 897-1391

Vintage Wheel Shop
George Garrigan
19842 Via Redondo
Sonora, CA 95370
(209) 533-0468

Dave’s Wood Wheel
Dave Seiler
412 South Flower
Brea, CA 92821
(714) 501-7080
wheelguy221@yahoo.com


Keith Wilson
26 South St
Allora, QLD 4362
Australia

https://www.allorawheelman.com/

After removing the wheels and soaking those wood fellows in water, it would be to your advantage to tighten all the hub nuts. I bet you'll get at least one to one and a half turns before they are tight again. I agree with RVA23T

Here's a link to what Art Wilson and I did with some wheels several years ago that now have lots of miles and still tight as a well diggers whatever!
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/41 ... 1398623768

I am on the side that recommends that you look into having your wheels rewooded. I have had a set of wheels redone on two of my T’s. Some of the best money I have spent.

In my opinion soaking them in either water or oil is a very temporary fix. If the spokes are original, they have been drying out for close to 100 years. I have a hard time understanding how soaking them for a few days will have much of a lasting effect on them.

Thank you all for your suggestions.

This Friday I will have the inspection of my Lizzy. I am absolutely sure they will not even notice this little creaking of spokes, and when they try to wiggle the wheel - it possibly will do a very, very little creak, but there is no play, so they will not worry.
After that I have time to work on the wheel.

The wooden felloe is sitting tight on the metal rim (hope this term is now correct, I mean the C shaped metal ring pressed and riveted onto the wooden felloe). There is absolutely no play or visible gap between wood and metal, so I will not start getting that apart. I will soak it with "Ovatrol", this is an excellent penetrating oil used often in Europe. It soaks into rust, can climb up to 8" on rusty sheet metal, and stops rust. After some weeks it is hardened by air and is permanent then. I think this is a good way.

Of course, all wood parts are in very good condition (otherwise I wouldn't try to keep the wheel assembled.
I will control also if nuts are loose around the hub. If so, I will take them completely off, degrease and clean them, and re-install them with medium strength liquid "screw securing fluid". So they can be removed, but can't get off by vibration, even if not tight. -> This is for increasing safety.
But I wiggled on the wheel today, there is nothing moving on hub and spokes, so I am pretty sure nuts are not loose.

If something still is loose at wooden felloe side, I will try to press the fellow up a little bit (using a self-built modified spoke-jack) and glue in a thin shim in shape of spoke ends with Eposy resin. This shim will be glued to the felloe only and will do two things at once: increasing the tension and protecting the felloe from being worn out by the spoke end.
Finally also there some "Ovatrol", and after 2 weeks black paint, and you see nothing of this modification..

I think this is a good solution.

Rainer

Maybe if you started your posts with GREETINGS FROM AUSTRIA, posters would see you do not live
in the United States and they would stop telling you to use American business's to help you with your car
when you post asking for help.

Perhaps they know of a firm in Europe that can help you.

Because you said the movement was "very slight", I looked at your weather forecast for Monday & Tuesday this week. During Peak temperatures mid-day into early evening (19:00)
the humidity in Vienna will below 50% down around 40%. I would check the fit in the morning when the humidity has returned to the 60% range to see if the daytime air is the cause of the shrinking of the wood.
I also understand that repeated water soaking/absorption could lead to soft wood, but once in a while in a period of dry air might be prudent. When the T was just one of many everyday cars, they were exposed to much more moisture in everyday use than most of us will expose out T's too in the garage.
The same situation could also happen in deep cold with dry air as well.

If you feel you need to quite the noise for the TÜV, perhaps a little expanding Polyurethane Glue will "squeek" you by! NOT A PERMINATE FIX I know!!
Viel Glück!

DHort wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 14, 2024 7:43 pm

Maybe if you started your posts with GREETINGS FROM SWITZERLAND, posters would see you do not live

Dave,

I guess Switzerland is close to Austria, where Rainer lives

Rainer,

It seems you've got a good idea of what to do; in my view it'd be good to tighten things up soon before the movement causes undue wear. FWIW I wonder if you could simply heat the rim at the same time as cooling the spokes, then shim? The relative expansion/contraction may be enough to do what you need without the need of a jack ... then oil the spokes post that.

Otherwise all the best for your T's imminent inspection.

Luke.

I must have heard some yodeling in the background when I wrote that. Now fixed.

Hello.
I only want to tell you that I fixed the problem with slightly loose wooden spokes this weekend. This may be also of interest to others who have the same situation, it costs almost nothing and is a reliable solution.

Initial sitiation:
My Model T '16 got slightly loose spokes on one wheel. I have wooden felloes, wooden spokes, not demountable rims. The spokes had shrunk and got a little play sideways, caused by hot summer and low humidity.

Of course, making them wet will be a quick fix, but with repeating that, the situation will become worse very quickly. So I definitely didn't want to do this.
The "non plus ultra" solution I was repeatedly suggested was "Rebuild wheel with new spokes". Sounds like buy a new car because it has a scratch in paint? Also no real solution, this costs more than 1000 $$$-

Solution:
Tools and things to prepare: Electric drill, very sharp ø4mm drill, 1-2 one-way syringes, 50+ grams Epoxy (resin + hardener) with open time of 15-20 minutes. Lots of cleaning paper.

Here the step-by-step guide:

• Take off the wheel from your T and lay it flat on your workbench.
• Drill a short hole of ø4 mm and depth of ¨12mm depth from the wooden felloe towards every spoke pin. This hole crosses the gap between the wooden felloe and the 1/2" spoke pin.
• Make a kneel of cleaning paper and place it below every spoke end and wooden felloe to catch oozing Epoxy. Big open gaps I would close before with some plasticine before.
• Mix approx 50g of Epoxy resin and suck it into the syringe. I used Epoxy that starts curing after 15-20 minutes. This gives you sufficient time. So from now on you have 20 minutes...
• Insert the cone of syringe into the drilled hole and press in Epoxy until it starts to ooze out between spoke and felloe (and possibly wooden felloe and metal rim). Apply some pressure to force all air out from the gap, with too low pressure this is not ensured. Finally put an excess drop of Epoxy on top of the hole. .
• Repeat previous step on every spoke / hole.
  .
• All you have to do now is adding Epoxy to drops on top. This has to be done more frequently at the beginning, but when resin starts to gel, this boring time is over.
• When the Epoxy drops start to become stiff, use a sharp X-ACTO blade and cut them away. Don't wait until they are too hard. Also flip over the wheel and clean wooden fellow and spokes from oozed Epoxy now.

After 24 to 48 hours the wheel can be mounted and used again.

Cost is minimal, time needed also less than 2 hours.



I already hear comments that the wheel cannot be disassembled any more then... NOT TRUE.
With some force the wood felloe will separate from rim. Then the spoke pin can be drilled out.

Keep a close watch on that wheel, looking for signs of re-loosening.
Good luck.

Not a critique just a thought about the epoxy.
Worried about adding some moisture to wood with the concern being eventually softwood and now adding a more dense or hard or brittle component to the wood that could change the flexibility or springyness at the point of interference of the wood with the epoxy.

Dont take we wrong, I would do the same in you situation but I would look in the the physical properties of the epoxy chosen to use against the species of wood the wheel is made from.

In simpler terms:
Kinda like saying I won't drink Lager but I will drink an IPA or even worst single malt!
Prost! And Kölsch is better!

RVA23T wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 28, 2024 12:50 pm

Not a critique just a thought about the epoxy.
Worried about adding some moisture to wood with the concern being eventually softwood and now adding a more dense or hard or brittle component to the wood that could change the flexibility or springyness at the point of interference of the wood with the epoxy.
Dont take me wrong, I would do the same in your situation but I would look in the the physical properties of the epoxy chosen to use against the species of wood the wheel is made from.

RAV23T,
what moisture do you think about? The wood was and is bone-dry and Epoxy contains almost no water. I had a close look on condition of the wood, this is hard wood with fine strands (or whatrever the right name is). It drills very well. I would rate the overall condition of wheel as very good (except the gap because of wood shrinking).

Physical properties...
Yes, I also thought about that, but I see no problems because of following reasons:

• Dimensions of where Epoxy is used is small (only around the spoke pin). So different expansion by temperature and humidity causes almost no changes.
• Chiccory is very strong and allows forces of up to 450 kg/cm². And Chiccory is elastic. The Epoxy I use is approved for aironautics and allows forces of up to 650 kg/cm² and is also not brittle.
• What I have now is some kind of a resin-sleeve between spoke pin and wooden fellow, filling all gaps without applying further pressure. The pin is simply sitting a perfectly matching hole again. In addition, some Epoxy was absorbed by the wood. So even when the surfaces inside the gap are a little worse, this is fixed now. All loose wood-powder absorbed resin and is embedded in resin now, so the link is now very stable.
• Epoxy also keeps water away (so the wood will not swell and shrink so much and often any more). The spoke is either painted or inside of Epoxy.

In fact I see no real risk at all.

This is a picture of my wheel. Picture was taken before cutting off the excess drop of resin at every drilled hole. Now the felloe is flat and smooth again, like all the rest of it. Here two short videos (cannot upload here):
Camera walk along the felloe: http://www.hantsch.co.at/_temp/WheelRepair.mp4
Departure with my Lizzy: http://www.hantsch.co.at/_temp/SummerDrive.mp4

Rainer, the 6 bolts which hold the wheel together at the hub should be peened over to stop the nut coming loose. If you try to take the nuts off you will likely deform them/damage the thread/ break a bolt. You can tighten them, and then peen them again to stop the tightened nut backing off.

Hope this helps. Allan from down under.

My concern filling the gap is it goes against the normal press fit tensioning.
A normally assembled wheel has the rim pressed in or shrunk on.
A good repair is having the wood fellow made larger by adding a shim, wood or metal, around the OD, heating the rim to tight shrink fit the rim.
Your fix has no press fit. I would not do such a "fix" on a wheel intended to be driven as opposed to a museum display.

After reading spoke related threads for years, it would seem that the new spokes never shrink,never rot,never dry out,never swell,1 time repair for forever, they just remain perfect thru out time.This can not be as wood changes with humidity.
Once the new spokes are installed, are they just painted once and forgotten?
I would think 1 would apply a oil or something to the wood to keep it flexible.

What is the life span of the new spoke?

tdump wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 30, 2024 8:24 am

After reading spoke related threads for years, it would seem that the new spokes never shrink,never rot,never dry out,never swell,1 time repair for forever, they just remain perfect thru out time.This can not be as wood changes with humidity.
Once the new spokes are installed, are they just painted once and forgotten?
I would think 1 would apply a oil or something to the wood to keep it flexible.

What is the life span of the new spoke?

I had mine rebuilt by Stutzman. My grandkids might have something to worry about when they own it but I doubt it. Rebuilt wheels now days run on bit kinder road.
In my humble opinion sketchy wheels driving 2 miles to the dairy queen at 15 mph are probably...okay, but driving 30 mph with grandkids for a twenty mile ride not so much!

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 30, 2024 8:14 am

My concern filling the gap is it goes against the normal press fit tensioning.
A normally assembled wheel has the rim pressed in or shrunk on.
A good repair is having the wood fellow made larger by adding a shim, wood or metal, around the OD, heating the rim to tight shrink fit the rim.
Your fix has no press fit. I would not do such a "fix" on a wheel intended to be driven as opposed to a museum display.

If you would have carefully read my posts, you would know that the spokes have perfect radial fit (along their length) and the wooden felloe is sitting well inside the metal rim (does not move as it would when there is no perfect fit).
The only thing that had to be done is getting away the sideways-play of the spoke pin within the wooden felloe before the wheel gets worse, and for that your suggestion is absolutely wrong. Shrinking the wooden felloe by re-mounting the steel rim with some shim increases the axial pressure to the spokes, but does not remove the gap between wooden felloe and shrunk spoke-pin (because of drying). So what you suggest will temporarily make the play invisible, but the spokes will wear out the wooden rim again, and then it is back, often worse than before. I would agree if the entire wheel is loose, but this is not.

I think as Mechanical Engineer I have sufficient knowledge to evaluate the condition of things.

But do as you like, I don't throw 1000+ $$ out of the window for fixing the wrong things by building up a wheel from scratch, when a simple injection of Epoxy gives at least the same result and stability. I was meanwhile in touch with many restorers, they all told me that my repair is the best possible.

As I understood, your spoke(s) had some side movement. They would not provide the support between the fellow & hub as designed.
Filling the gap doesnt put the tension back in.
As a degree'd engineer with "sufficient knowledge to evaluate" & the opinions from all the many restorers on the matter, why do you bother to ask this forum?
Having your wheels completely rebuilt from scratch with shipping to the States may cost $1000, but taking to a local wagon wheel-rite or DIY to add shim to the fellow & get the strength of the wheel back as new would be relative pocket change.

I got no dog in this hunt. As long as YOU are happy, good for you.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:17 am

As a degree'd engineer with "sufficient knowledge to evaluate" & the opinions from all the many restorers on the matter, why do you bother to ask this forum?

... because I wanted to hear how others repair. Without rebuilding the entire wheel, because in Austria/Europe such wheel-rebuilders are rare.
I found this other restorers some days after I asked here.




But thanks to all people sharing their ideas. It was interesting.

Final status:
Spokes sit rock-solid. Absolutely no play anywhere. If my other wheels will start with the same issue, I know how to fix it.

I still can only recommend this solution.


Today I saw that the tire started cracking on the same wheel. It is a very old Olympic 30 x 3 1/2. I guess it is at least 15-20 years old, so brittle it was. I could see the carcass at the border of the rim when prying it up a bit, so it was highest time to get it off.
This gave me the ability to also check the sit of the sit of metal rim on wooden felloe. Rock solid, as before my repair with Epoxy, with absolutely no play. (All I have to do is stop the fine rust inside the steel rim, apply some paint, and mount the new tire.)

If the OP has only one loose spoked wheel, I'll agree with Steve Jelf. This is nothing to fool around with - I would bite the bullet and if he can't find a wooden wheel repair facility in Europe - including the British Isles (The Brits don't think of themselves as Europe) I would send it to one of the American wheel rebuilders. Including the shipping it will be pricey, but there was a post here a few years back about a fatality after a wheel failure.