MTFCA Forum

Can I replace the transmission bands with out removing the hogs head????

Schweck1914 wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 05, 2024 8:15 am

Can I replace the transmission bands with out removing the hogs head????

Maybe.
Depends on what's there now. Demountables in place?
Depends on the type linings you will be using either way.

I see you have a '14. You're gonna say I sound crazy, and often I do...ha ha..but if it were mine, I'd take the firewall off AND the hogshead, demountable ears or not! Done it more than once. You'll thank me when it comes time to put that dang H.H. back ON! And remove the brake and reverse pedal too before putting the H.H. back on. You will thank me for that too! Makes your life a whole lot simpler. And re those removable ears...that your car likely doesn't have...well, anything removable is also possible to FALL IN!! Even with rags stuffed, they'll find that one little opening that you couldn't keep closed up. I wouldn't trust my luck with them!

If you have the bands with these type of ears that’s already installed you can do it. But maybe not as fast as Joe Snow did it 100 years ago. But of course other brands made similiar bands too.

Hi Richard,
Yes you can & yes it's a PITA. A lot depends on how hard the HH is to remove & how much help you have. The first set of bands I replaced were
not equipped with removable ears & were wood. The bands had to be cut to remove & then installed bands with removable ears with Kevlar
linings ( My model T ignorance lead me to build my speedster so the HH could not be removed with the body on) You will need to be patient
as things may get stuck & struggling only seems to make it worse! be careful to not twist the bands out of shape when installing.
Good Luck.
Craig.

Heck takes me 30 minutes to get the inspection cover off these days. I’ve often looked at the time expectations noted for repairs by the folks that did the service in the heydays of model T’s an wondered how in the world. Best John

More information needed to make any sort of helpful suggestions !

The pedal bosses on early HH's (Aluminum)are more centered to the pedal shaft hole. This makes using demountable bands very difficult to install unless the bottom of those bosses is reduced for more clearance. Of course there is no free lunch. This, along with cutting the long low pedal shaft, greatly increases the wear factor from the removal of the designed pedal shaft supports.

RajoRacer wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 05, 2024 1:28 pm

More information needed to make any sort of helpful suggestions !

....... & give a definitive answer to your question.
Was your HH modified for Demountable bands or is it still OEM 14??
A picture thru the cover hole would make that determination easy if you are not aware of the differences/necessary modifications.

Removing the HH takes more time and effort, but for me it has been worth it each time. It is easier to make a tough mistake trying to go through the inspection cover. Ford may have implemented the "quick change" band later on, but the hogshead/inspection cover was never designed for the procedure. Plus with the HH removed you can get a good look at everything in there before reassembly so you can be more sure of all that work you just did.

As we get older changing the transmission bands through the transmission cover gets harder as does hand cranking. Working in a tight area is hard enough taking off the transmission cover but the extra time it takes is worth it when taking it off as we get older. Patience is what’s needed when you don’t do it all the time. Any time when the bands are easier to get to it makes it that much better.

I made this helper that allows me to do the job on my own. It is specially useful with the heavy cast iron covers. Allan from down under

Allan nice set up but my fingers are hurting just thinking about those vice grips slipping off.

John, they are there to allow the cover to be lowered in stages, without me having to support the weight of the cover. Once the pedal rods are lowered to contact the ears, the vice grip holds the cover in place while I manipulate the springs and ears on the pedal shafts. Then it can be dropped a little more, and the ties on the bands removed before lowering it right down.
Our first gear band is the internally adjustable one on a RHD car. I fit the cover with the washer and nut in place, rather than risk dropping either into the abyss No need for stuffing rags tat get in the way. You could do the same with your reverse and brake washers/nuts.

Allan from down under.

Tadpole wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 05, 2024 3:34 pm

Removing the HH takes more time and effort, but for me it has been worth it each time. It is easier to make a tough mistake trying to go through the inspection cover. Ford may have implemented the "quick change" band later on, but the hogshead/inspection cover was never designed for the procedure. Plus with the HH removed you can get a good look at everything in there before reassembly so you can be more sure of all that work you just did.

I agree wholeheartedly Tad!! That's basically what I said above too...and everyone's forgetting (maybe) this '14 likely has the ALUMINUM, lighter hogshead! I'm tellin ya, removing the firewall is worth the hour or so of work to do it. Been there. And I don't care what anyone says, any "removeable item" inside that hogshead is just dying to fall INTO the pan!! That includes those pesky removable band ears. Since the author hasn't replied back with further info, who knows what he's working with.

Right on the money Tim, better to take longer on a job and be confident in your work. It is easier to enjoy the work that way.

Tim any removable object is just dying to get loose! That is why I fit the band adjusting nuts and washers 2 or 3 turns before fitting the cover. There is then no risk of dropping them into the trans. Saves rag stuffing and associated angst.

Allan from down under.

Allan wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 07, 2024 3:13 am

Tim any removable object is just dying to get loose! That is why I fit the band adjusting nuts and washers 2 or 3 turns before fitting the cover. There is then no risk of dropping them into the trans. Saves rag stuffing and associated angst.

Allan from down under.

Good thoughts too Allan but of course that's if you put the H.H. back on with all 3 pedals on it. I've found it much easier to take off the Reverse & Brake pedal, put the H.H. on and then put those pedals back on. Seriously easier. What I do is I adopted from another poster the use of dental floss on the adj. nut as well as the washer, be damned even then with a friends job it still busted out! I got it with my "magic magnet tho"! Can laugh now, sure didn't then!! It's just an opinion, we all know each guy has to do what works for him.

Seriously...

Pull the hogshead! You WILL be done quicker ... lol. Like someone mentioned, pull the firewall too. You may or may not have to remove the exhaust manifold, so have ring gaskets at the ready.

Can demountable be made to work through the door? YES...but unless you absolutely know the drill, don't go there. Somewhere in the whole scheme of things, there is maybe but 1/32 - 1/16 clearance to allow a demountable with those finger posts to pass. How lucky are you? Especially once you know that the band itself really needs to stay absolutely round? (for Kevlar and Wood bands...other is a little more forgiving)

I have done dozens, and my present penchant is for wood lining (personal choice) which have to start round and stay round or else they will chirp! Kevlar just doesn't like egg...creates a hot spot...drum gets blue...drum known to sometime crack from the experience.

The trick in the wiggle and tug of finding that max 1/16 clearance on some is not impossible...it just adds to the time...greatly if you're not in for a lucky day! I've had them drop right in with little effort, I had one (with Kevlar) take close to 3 hours to get that last band in...on another experience the Thomas Edison car in Orange NJ was a classic...that one was wood going in, I hammered those bands perfectly round before Moxie 26 adding the wood and did the rivet machine thing. I had just over 2 hours with the wiggle and wonk on that last band and had too much liquid that morning. I excused myself and said to Moxie 26, "You wanna wiggle for a while?" and I scurried off to the loo at Edisons carriage house upstairs. I came back down, Moxie 26 was cleaning spark plugs or the like and I joked 'give up?' He nodded towards the access door...Danged, all ready for me to mount the clips and finish up!!!! My point? It's luck! Since those 'forever' experienced time I've always just pulled the hogshead. That way the wood can stay absolutely perfectly round without a stretch (same would hold for Kevlar).

Problem with the HH? I 'bit' on the 'Right Stuff' recommendation from the forum on the best sealant since sliced bread...should read the label...lol. Open time on that stuff is about the time it takes me to get the hogshead ready for placement, let alone starting to drop it in! Yeah, leaked. Let it leak, I have drip pans...lol. Son took over stewardship of that one and called, his garage floor was really getting messed up and so were his drip pans. I went over and we jacked the HH up in place a few inches, tore out the felts...scraped off the goo...new gooey felt, black RTV...all done no leaks!

It does take two people, even on an aluminum HH as that little fork swivel will be your own worst enemy. I zip tie the bands closed tight, then cut them later. Some guys claim they are dexterous enough to play with the swivel fork with floss on it with grease as glue...not me...THAT was a real rabbit hole too ...

Allan...I DO like your rig!

Tim, you guys have twice the chance to drop stuff into the abyss that we have. I don't take the chance with just one nut and washer, let alone two. Each to his own, but if you have ever had to take the cover off again to retrieve a nut, my alternative looks most attractive.

Allan from down under.

Allan wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 07, 2024 9:03 pm

Tim, you guys have twice the chance to drop stuff into the abyss that we have. I don't take the chance with just one nut and washer, let alone two. Each to his own, but if you have ever had to take the cover off again to retrieve a nut, my alternative looks most attractive.

Allan from down under.

Can't argue with that either Allan...I've done 'em both ways! I did find that using a "double turn" on the floss makes for a stronger "keeper" and still won't interfere with getting the washer and nut on, then I just snap it off when it's safe to do so and the remaining itty bitty part of floss just "goes away"...