Jacks

[Arnie]

I believe that there were three "types" of jacks used for the Model T Ford passenger vehicles.

The first type had a screw type mechanism with an attached handle. The second type had a pressed steel outer housing with a ratchet and separate handle. The third type had a pressed steel outer housing with a ratchet and a separate handle and a two inch flip top.

The first type was used approximately between 1919 and 1924. The second type was used around 1925 model year, and the third type was used around the 1926/1927 model year.

I have one of each type jack. The screw jack height is between 10.25" and 15.5". The second jack height (range) is between 8.5" and 13.75". The third type is between 8.5" and 16.5". The 8.5" dimension is with the flip top down, and the 16.5" dimension is with the ratchet fully extended and the flip top up.

All dimensions are within 0.25".

I was told that the flip top jack was introduced because of the dropped spindle height used on the improved vehicle. I do not believe this to be true. The 1925 jack already has the low height of 8.5" so that must not be the reason for the introduction of the flip top jack.

Does anyone know the real reason for the introduction of the flip top jack? The flip top jack must have cost more to produce so Henry Ford must have had a reason to do it.

In later production the flip top portion had a hole through it. Does anyone have the answer for the purpose of the hole in the flip top portion? This question was asked in the past, without an answer, but perhaps now with new knowledge we have the answer!

Arnie

[Steve Jelf]

The first Ford parts book listing a jack is May 1917. I suppose before that it was up to the customer to buy an aftermarket jack.

I carry the common Model T screw jack in my tool box, along with a 2x8 block to put under it. It's compact and works well.

[Dropacent]

Pretty sure there were AT LEAST 5 types, with several manufacturers, so the number is probably higher than that. From my poor memory the rip van winkle T had a non ford script jack under the seat, but it was made by Ashland , similar to the ford script. Likely when they were really spitting these things out, they could care less whether it was ford script.
I believe the model A guys have it down to a more exact science re/ the hole in the flip top. I’ll look it up and get back.

[Dropacent]

I stole two pics from MAFCA, 1 from Kim Dobbins and the other from my floor

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[cwlittle]

Ford started supplying jacks in 1913, along with a top boot. It was a two piece (jack and separate handle), and is pictured on the right in the photo of the two jacks with the prominent FORD markings (silver colored). The other one in that picture is a Buckeye #3, and was sold by the Buckeye Company and advertised in early Ford Times magazines. Buckeye was originally in Louisville Ohio, but moved to Alliance, Ohio on January 1st 1910. I believe the jack pictured is marked Louisville (belongs to Kim Dobbins). I have one marked Alliance.

[cwlittle]

Here is documentation that Ford was suppling jacks in 1913, note it states "and handle" for the jack. ALSO, it shows Spark plug wrench and handle, that refers to the T2178 style plug wrench that was supplied into 1913 (see photo).

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[DanTreace]

Arnie

The Flip Top is a mechanical ratchet , pressed metal design. Was very different from the cast iron std. worm gear jack, that cast jack was slow operating, and when fully extended a bit wobbly.

Cost wasn't the only reason, but likely was less $ for the pressed metal one, and made sense, was new design, faster to use too. That flip top helped make the unit more compact for storage, and the ratchet stem was short also.

The base and frame of the pressed steel jack is better and stronger for the heavier balloon tired Later Ts'.

Note comparison on use, have used both many times, the pressed metal flip top goes up faster and lowers faster with the flip of the lever on the side, ratchets quickly. With that Flip top, you could use it on the front axle with flip down, and the ratchet stem was long enough to get the wheel up. On the rear axle, that Flip is nice wide to cup the axle tube, and the height with the Flip up, allows that shorter stem of this ratchet jack to elevate enough too.

[Allan]

From my observations of our Canadian sourced cars, the jacks supplied were the cast iron screw type, supplied by more than one manufacturer. Ashland has been mentioned, Auto Specialties is another. These cast iron jacks come in plain and flip top variants. I have no idea of any timeline for their introduction. I believe the flip top was a later improvement, designed to compensate for the difference in height between the front beam axle and the rear axle tubes. The top was flipped up when jacking the rear.

I bought a Ford script cast iron jack at Chickasha. I was amazed to find every single component of the jack had its own cast-in part number!

Allan from down under.

[Original Smith]

This discussion will never end! I would like to see documentation the flip top was used on any Model T! Take a look at the cheap ratchet jack that was offered in 1925. There are several different heights of those jacks, all made by the same companies, Ajax and Walker. When I did my research I assumed the new style would be the same height as the old screw jack, and that's fine if you have 30 X 3 1/2 wheels, but if you don't you better be looking for a 9 or 9 I/2" jack. All use the same handle. I've always understood the flip top was used on the Model A's only, but it makes perfect sense to use it on a Model T. I just want to see proof from the archives that this is true.

[Dropacent]

Get over it ,Larry. Some things will never be proven. I will say one thing, I don’t think you could get anything but a flip top jack under an improved car axle with a flat tire. Remember, not only was the axle arched to lower, but the spindles were raised. I think the springs were de-arched, too. I agree with Dan that the pressed steel jack was cheaper to produce. The model A guys get real serious about research, and I believe they would not have stated the hole/no hole idea unless they had some documentation.

[Altair]

You could order any car manufacture plaque on a Buckeye Jack.

[Allan]

Tim, you have me confused, but that's not hard to do! The flip top n a T jack helps to make up the difference between the low front axle and the rear axle tubes. Any T jack fits under the front axle. A flip top helps under the rear axle. Less work on the handle. The spindle height on the 26-7 cars is set higher by 1/2", thus lowering the front axle beam by that amount. Can you explain for me how the flattened front spring effects the axle height? If the later axles were 'arched', is that an arch upwards outboard of the perch to affect a further lowering of the axle beam like the drop axle on English cars?

Allan from down under.

[Dropacent]

Allan, i’d Have to really dig for th info but I believe the car was lowered a couple inches overall in 1926. Someone will know. They did several things to accomplish this. Without letting air out of mine for a good measurement, I’d be guessing.

[Arnie]

Larry, the parts books do not list a flip top jack. However, the library has pictures of a flip top jack assembly with a "T" number. Since the flip top jack was produced that looks like the print/pictures I take it on faith that the parts book was not changed, but a flip top jack was used in 1926, 1927. Do you not accept the Benson Ford Library prints as proof of the flip top jack? Could it be possible that Ford just did not update his picture in the parts book when he came out with the flip top jack?

I was unable to determine just when the hole in the flip top was introduced. Perhaps I looked at the wrong drawings. However I did see some drawings with showed the hole in the flip top portion of the jack. My guess is that the hole in the flip top jack came later but when, I do not know. Other sources say the whole was in the early Model A Ford jack.

Could anyone tell me the different sizes the 1925 flip top jack for the Ford passenger cars came in? I have seen only the approximately 8.5" "compressed height" jack for the ratchet non flip top style. I understand that different manufactures made the jacks, but I would think that Ford would control the compressed and fully extended height in their assembly drawing they would send out the the vendors. Perhaps the other height ratchet type jack without the flip top were used for other vehicles than the Model T passenger line. Remember I am not including truck jacks in this discussion.

I hope to see the measured heights of the compressed position of the 1925 jacks from the forum members who have such an item.

Arnie

[Original Smith]

Is the hole referred to above the hole that lines up with the jack handle?
If the flip top jack is listed as a T part in the archives, that is great! Please post a picture if one is available.
Beginning around May or June of 1925, the new 8 leaf front spring was introduced lowering the car one inch. The 21" balloon wheels were used earlier than that necessitating a jack that would go under the front axle. A flip top jack will cure the problem, but so will a pressed steel jack that is pictured in the parts books that is less than 10", let's say 9 or 9 1/2 inches.

[DanTreace]

Here is Trent's summary, if you read the last paragraphs on the Flip Top. He doesn't mention that little center hole in the Flip, but does note that ratchet jack continued to the Model A, those A guys research the heck out of A parts, and agree the Flip top , with the hole, is Model A.

The non-hole, solid Flip top is Model T.

Why the hole, well we don't even know the purpose of the hole at Oak Island in Nova Scotia

Measured these on my shelf, the cast worm jack 10", the pressed steel ratchet jack, 8.25" and the Flip top pressed steel ratchet jack, flip down, 8.40"
All measures compressed and approx. and I used the lowest 'saddle' positions of each jack where an axle part would rest.


These ratchet jacks work well, fast lift with each throw of the handle, good leverage too with long handle, just like our experiences with the old time bumper jacks you got out of the trunk Lowering is controlled too, and easy. The old style worm is real hard to back down the worm gear with the weight of a T enclosed car suspended on its wobbly shaft

[Dropacent]

Great info, Dan ! I believe the hole in the later flip top jacks was possibly an aid in feeding them into a folding die set. Just a semi-educated guess.
Now let’s discuss tire pumps some time. Another fascinating topic ! Some of the hardest pumps to find are very late model T tire pumps.

[Arnie]

Larry:

The distance between the bottom of the tire and the lower part of the beam front axle near the wheel determines the retracted jack height needed to jack up the wheel.

Unless I am missing something the front spring arc or number of leaves etc. has nothing to do with the jack height required to get under the front beam axle near the wheel. Perhaps you are thinking about the front spindle height change. That caused the front beam axle to be lower to the ground.

With regard to the passenger car jack for 1925 I believe the around 8.5" is correct (give me a 1/4 inch tolerance, as do you measure it from the top of the arc or at the center of the arc). Perhaps the 9" retracted jack is for the trucks. Hopefully others with 1925 jacks for passenger cars will let us know what the retracted length is.

Arnie

[Allan]

Arnie, at last a bit of logic! Spring height/number of leaves has nothing to do with axle beam height. Only the raising of the spindles on the 26-7 cars does. Again, the flip top has nothing to do with using any jack under the front axle. It is used to make up the difference in height when using the jack under the back axle.
Bear in mind that I am working down under.
Allan.

[Original Smith]

There is certainly room for more opinions! I know all of the above. What I'm interested in is facts!