MTFCA Forum

I did upholstery on collector cars for 30 years. I could never understand people doing incorrect materials or patterns. Someone with a CCCA classic would inquire about doing vinyl instead of leather. Yes, they could save a thousand or so dollars by doing vinyl, but when the time came to sell their car the car would be worth about $ 7000 less because it had an incorrect interior, that had to be redone by the new owner. Using incorrect cloth in a closed Model T is the same thing. It might be a few hundred dollars less than the correct material, but it will hurt the resale value much more.
One of the first Packards I did was a 1937 115, with beautiful leather upholstery. The owner had been talked into doing the upholstery in a Super 8 pattern, not a 115 pattern. After a couple of years he had me tear out the beautiful, incorrect pattern and do the car in a correct 110 pattern in leather. It cost him a bunch of money and I hated tearing out a beautiful upholstery job and throwing it away.

If something is worth doing, it is worth doing right.

I have been in agreement with you for many years! Your examples are things I have seen over and over again. Labor is the most expensive cost in a full interior restoration. A few or even a hundred dollars more per yard of material is a small price to have it done right. And the labor savings by doing it in a wrong pattern doesn't save very much either.
That said, however, there is a new recent wrinkle in the pattern. A few of the major suppliers of era type and/or correct materials have vanished in the recent few years. Many people restoring classics in recent years have been totally unable to get correct materials.
Even proper common enclosed model T materials have disappeared in the recent years. Some proper upholstery kits that had been available for a few decades suddenly are no longer available. Some can still be had, but many cannot.
There have always been some upholstery materials that have been difficult. Over thirty years ago, when restoring my 1916 model T center-door sedan, I ran into a problem. The 1916 c-d sedan was an in between car. Nothing quite like the true 1915 center-door sedan with its exquisite interior, but not quite like the black era center-door sedans that followed either. The original interior was in poor condition, but intact enough to provide important patterns and material samples. A local upholstery supply company had some material that was similar, but not quite right. I really wanted the right material. So I made a number of phone calls, and mailed samples to a few companies famous for supplying the collector car hobby. The closest result was not nearly as good as what the local company had on hand. One supplier said they could have a custom run in the orient for about $400 per yard (in about 1990!) and I needed about six yards (headliner was the same material!).
I ended up using what the local company had, and did all the work myself. I was very happy with the results. But I would have preferred to have had something a bit closer to the original material.

The funny thing is, just a couple weeks ago, while looking for something else, I ran across some of the sample pieces and a piece of the material I ended up using. The material I used really was a good looking material, and not all that far off from the original.

One should always try to do a "restoration" the right way, as much as reasonably possible. This for a bunch of good reasons. Future resale value being one of the most important reasons.

Question. I have a 1915 model T Ford Touring and I THINK it has the original interior that I'm calling "oilskin". It does have a fabric backing and it looks like leather. Would this be correct?

Many years ago, at the Meadowbrook Concours, I saw a gorgeous classic car. Among other things, it had an absolutely beautifully done top. Not a wrinkle. It was perfection... except the people who made and installed it used the material inside-out. Ouch.

Way worse than incorrect material is mismatched colors.

Keith, you are correct on all of your points. As a restoration shop owner that also does Trim work in-house, what we hear most often is "I intend to drive the car and I am already over budget on the project, so let's just go with the cheaper materials."

Also, many restorers/hobbyists are 'sticker shocked' at what it costs to accurately recreate an interior on 1920s - 40s collector vehicle. Even on lower valued orphan cars such as a late 20s or early 30s Hupmobile Sedan or a similar Durant or Dodge Victory 6 Sedan, it can easily take in excess of 120 hours to template, pattern, sew, and install a quasi aesthetically-correct interior PLUS the costs of the piece goods & supplies, and all of the other items such as window regulator handles and escutcheons, door handles & escutcheons, strikers, etc. that must be restored and replated. Additionally, window trim sticks and garnish mouldings generally need to be painted or grained which can easily exceed $5k depending on condition. In those circumstances, $15k-$25k for a turnkey job is not unreasonable.

Choose a higher-end collector vehicle where we must have a custom Weaver replicate the original fabrics (covers, coachlace covers, windlace covers, window shades, tassel pulls, etc.) in a certain pattern or color, and that can easily add another $10k-20k to a job, ...and the job can easily exceed 200-250 hours by the time all pieces such as weltings, pipings, bindings etc. are fabricated plus $5k-$10k for materials. A Duesenberg Town Car can easily have $100k or more spent on upholstery and trimming.

When I bought the '27 T Touring Car in 2014 the rear seat upholstery was (and still is) in excellent condition. It is a black leather-like material. Both the seat and seat back have a single row of buttons on the stitched seams. The front upholstery was a mess, covered by burlap and a couple of beach towels. The seat was job 1 and when we removed the burlap and towels we found the remnants of black upholstery of the same type as the back seat. It had no buttons and the upholstery shop felt that it was probably original. We elected to redo the front seat in the same way as the original - no buttons. Because of the condition of the fabric I'm not going to change anything, but does anyone know for sure which is correct?

Ken Sorensons upholstery shop in Pasadena used to have the correct open car top material. As I recall it came from down south somewhere. I've visited the shop, and they are not interested in helping to find the correct material. Steve Coniff and I had the very closest material made and is now available from Classtique.

Yes, I agree with you.

John Codman wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 04, 2024 10:22 am

When I bought the '27 T Touring Car in 2014 the rear seat upholstery was (and still is) in excellent condition. It is a black leather-like material. Both the seat and seat back have a single row of buttons on the stitched seams. The front upholstery was a mess, covered by burlap and a couple of beach towels. The seat was job 1 and when we removed the burlap and towels we found the remnants of black upholstery of the same type as the back seat. It had no buttons and the upholstery shop felt that it was probably original. We elected to redo the front seat in the same way as the original - no buttons. Because of the condition of the fabric I'm not going to change anything, but does anyone know for sure which is correct?

Anyone?

Hi. No buttons is correct for the 2nd half of 27. 26 did have buttons. Most people still want the buttons on their late 27s. Also, at Classtique Upholstery we sell the correct fabrics, fasteners, kits, and more.

Mike Francis
Classtique Upholstery
www.classtiqueupholstery.com
651-484-9022

Mike... Our 26 was built in August 1926 .,... And did specify no buttons because there were no buttons on the original seat. I am happy with that. You made a terrific bottom seat for my car and I appreciate it very much. Thank you!

Thanks Mike. I guess that a former owner had the rear seat done and liked the buttons. I prefer to be original when I can. Barring a disaster, the rear seat with buttons will outlast me so it's going to stay the way it is. It's a late '27, and was owned by the Forbes family (as in John Forbes Kerry) and lived on two privately owned islands off the coast of Massachusetts. What is amazing to me is that it was surrounded by salt water, and is about as rust-free as any original T of it's vintage that I have seen.