MTFCA Forum

Observing a need, I posted the following in a couple of the Facebook Model T groups. It occurs to me that even here, there may be somebody unaware.

The black box is a coil box. The four things in it are coils, not "coil boxes".
You're welcome.

And thank you, Steve, for the proper use of "you're welcome" versus the oft seen "your welcome." But I would expect nothing less from Mr. Jelf!

Thank you Gregory. I am pleased to know there is at least one more person out there who appreciates the proper use of language. When Bruce Mc Calley passed, we lost a warrior in the field.

Allan from down under.

I hope the Facebook crowd can appreciate our master linguist guiding them into unfamiliar territory of proper word usage.
Thank you master J!

So good to see you posting often again.

If you want to be authentic, the switch plate is not correct either!

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 29, 2024 12:04 pm

Observing a need, I posted the following in a couple of the Facebook Model T groups. It occurs to me that even here, there may be somebody unaware.


IMG_5823 copy.JPG
The black box is a coil box. The four things in it are coils, not "coil boxes".
You're welcome.

To each his own...
But the Parts Catalogue refers to the box in its entirety as the"coil" and each individual component as a "coil unit". AND then there are "coil box covers" and " coil box brackets" for the "coils"

“Coil box includes switch” wouldn’t fit the space so they cut the correct name short and continued the error. Just speculatin’.

Charlie B in N.J. wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 30, 2024 8:58 am

“Coil box includes switch” wouldn’t fit the space so they cut the correct name short and continued the error. Just speculatin’.

Doubt that since 5001 & 5001-B are just have "COIL........" printed for hem & plenty of space for "Box"
The word "box" was likely not used because of the confusion it causes. then & now. Visually there are 2 boxes. "Coil Unit" lends itself to one of the four units that make up the "Coil"

What's interesting is what Modern Car ignitions systems have now
Read & relate
The distributor automotive ignition system
A distributor-based automotive ignition system connects to the camshaft with gears. In the fully mechanical distributor, the gears spin the main distributor shaft. Inside, a set of “ignition points” rubs against a multi-sided cam on the distributor shaft. The cam opens and closes the points; they act like a mechanical switch that interrupts current flow. That’s what starts and stops the flow of power to the ignition coil. Once the coil generates firing voltage, it travels to the top of the coil and into the top of the distributor cap. There, a rotating disc attached to the distributor shaft “distributes” the power to each of the spark plug wires.
(If you think a bit about it the "Timer Roller or Brush" is connected to camshaft (no gears) and functionally acts as both a rotor & depending on the Timer there are 4 contact points. The Timer case is similar to a distributor cap)

The distributor-less automotive ignition system (DIS)
This system determines spark timing based on two shaft position sensors and a computer. The Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) is mounted at the front of the crankshaft or near the flywheel on some vehicles, and the Camshaft Position Sensor (CMP) is mounted near the end of the camshaft. These sensors continually monitor both shafts’ positions and feed that information into a computer.

The DIS also employs a different coil setup as compared to its predecessor. Instead of asking a single coil to power all the cylinders, the DIS uses multiple ignition coils called “coil packs," each generating spark for just two cylinders. As a result, each coil can be “on” longer and develop a stronger magnetic field — as much as 30,000 volts — and stronger, hotter spark that was needed in order to ignite newer vehicle's leaner fuel mixtures.

Coil-on-Plug Ignition System

The coil-on-plug (COP) vehicle ignition system incorporates all the electronic controls found in a DIS car ignition system, but instead of two cylinders sharing a single coil, each COP coil services just one cylinder and has twice as much time to develop maximum magnetic field. As a result, some COP car ignition systems generate as much as 40,000 to 50,000 volts and much hotter, stronger sparks.

COP ignition systems have another big advantage over DIS ignition systems. Since the coil mounts directly on top of the spark plug, spark plug cables are eliminated because the firing voltage is delivered directly to the plug. Plug cables mean greater resistance loss of amperage and voltage, as well as the possibility of contamination and cross-firing between cables if they become greasy or worn.

Nothing is as simple as it seems is it, Steve?

You mean they are not batteries!

I notice that coils often appear on eBay as 'Model T Batteries'

In TRDx82's comment about the coil-on-plug ignition system I agree - sorta. My 'o5 Dodge has the 5.7 liter V8 with two plugs per cylinder does have a coil-on-plug ignition system. The coil on any given spark plug fires it's own cylinder and sends a pulse to the cylinder 360 degrees from it; meanwhile our cylinder's other plug is receiving the "waste" pulse from another cylinder.

John Codman wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:54 pm

In TRDx82's comment about the coil-on-plug ignition system I agree - sorta. My 'o5 Dodge has the 5.7 liter V8 with two plugs per cylinder does have a coil-on-plug ignition system. The coil on any given spark plug fires it's own cylinder and sends a pulse to the cylinder 360 degrees from it; meanwhile our cylinder's other plug is receiving the "waste" pulse from another cylinder.

Sounds like a Tru-Fire ignition....

TRD: to call one a box and not the other is more confusing ..

At least there is no driver's side/ passenger side confusion.

Allan from down under.

Charlie B in N.J. wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 30, 2024 3:28 pm

TRD: to call one a box and not the other is more confusing ..

To call both "coil box" is less confusing?

I just posted the Ford 1925 parts catalog as a reference to what it called them. (same picture & descriptions in the 1927 pats catalogue)

What's interesting is that the images don't match the part numbers. "COIL (no lid)" vs "COIL BOX with LID" then other parts have the adjective "coil box" to describe them. So the COIL BOX is the container for the COIL UNITS (coils)

Jones in Aiken SC wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 29, 2024 12:19 pm

And thank you, Steve, for the proper use of "you're welcome" versus the oft seen "your welcome."

Agreed, but even the incorrect "your welcome" is better than the frequently-heard "No praahblem."

TRDxB2 wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 30, 2024 3:08 pm

John Codman wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:54 pm

In TRDx82's comment about the coil-on-plug ignition system I agree - sorta. My 'o5 Dodge has the 5.7 liter V8 with two plugs per cylinder does have a coil-on-plug ignition system. The coil on any given spark plug fires it's own cylinder and sends a pulse to the cylinder 360 degrees from it; meanwhile our cylinder's other plug is receiving the "waste" pulse from another cylinder.

Sounds like a Tru-Fire ignition....

It pretty much is...