Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

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Quickm007
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Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by Quickm007 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:12 pm

I'm ready to wire my 1911 but my engine is a 1920 with starter and generator with Heinz Coils box. Can someone have wiring diagram will work with this set up? Thank you for the help and sharing.
Super Mario Bross ;)

1911 Touring
1914 race car project

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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by Quickm007 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:21 pm

Here the beast ! After 8 years of restoration.


1911 rest 9.JPG
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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by BE_ZERO_BE » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:29 pm

Respectfully Submitted,
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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by Quickm007 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:56 pm

My question his what I do with the black and yellow wire from generator? Because I have a Heinz Coil box not an ignition switch... How it will charge the battery?
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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by BE_ZERO_BE » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:30 pm

The Yellow/Black is normally connected to the battery through the ignition switch and ammeter.
As there is probably neither on your car, the Yellow/Black wire should be connected to the Battery to keep it charged.
A fuse is needed to keep things safe if the cutout should fail.
The function of the normal keyed ignition switch needs to en emulated in some form.
I do not believe that the coil box switch can serve as a master switch for the generator circuit.
The ignition switch isolates the battery from the generator when the car is not running.
That is an important safety feature and needs to be emulated.
Respectfully Submitted,
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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by Henry K. Lee » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:34 pm

Bob,

You nailed it!

All the Best,

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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by Quickm007 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:18 pm

Hi,

So if I understand I put together the yellow wire and the yellow & black on the battery post on my Heinz coil box?

see bellow my home made diagram.
diagram wire.JPG
Super Mario Bross ;)

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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by BE_ZERO_BE » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:58 pm

It that configuration, the battery will be connected to the generator full time.
This will work but, this relies solely on the cutout to protect the generator and battery when the motor is not running.
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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by Norman Kling » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:32 pm

Even the Model T's which came with the generator and battery depend on the cutoff to isolate the battery from the generator when not running. The switch only disconnects the battery from the ignition coils. You are damned if you do or if you do not use a fuse! If the fuse is between the ammeter and the battery, if it blows when the engine is running and the lights are on, you will burn out all the lights. If , if it blows you will still be depending on the cutout because if that fuse goes out, the generator will destroy itself. It is best to have an ammeter in the circuit. Look at it when you turn off the engine. If it shows discharge, you have a problem which should be tended to immediately. Anyway, you should have the cutoff connected to the battery and the generator so the juice goes through the cutout whenever the engine is running, and the cutoff disconnects whenever the engine is off.
Norm

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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by Mark Gregush » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:23 pm

I have said that before, if you put a fuse in the main line and it blows and you are running on mag, the engine will still run and the gen is still charging but with no where to go. You better hope there is a good shunt in your cutout/regulator to carry the current to ground. There are other ways to solve this like adding a battery disconnect (good idea for fire protection) and fuse the components like the lights etc. Sure lots of people put fuses in the main line in Model A's, but that is the main power for lights and ignition etc. If it blows the car stops or should.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by Quickm007 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:42 pm

The good news, I dont have electric lights. It is gas light. But I'm afraid about over charging.
Super Mario Bross ;)

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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:17 pm

Two words: Voltage Regulator
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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by George Hand » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:02 am

Mario, You stated you have no electric lights, so WHY do you need a generator and the associated problems. Remove the generator and it's mounting bracket and find a block off plate. These were made for service blocks on early cars after the 1919 block came out. Charge the battery every once in a while. Also the block off plate is used with the non electric timing cover. One more option would be to just use generator block off (flat) Plates. And another option remove gear from generator and reinstall. If you have a good battery and a working flywheel magneto the starter does not take that much away from the battery.


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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by fliverfan » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:30 am

With no electric accessories at all, I often wondered if running the coils off a 24v deep cycle marine battery is a viable option. No starter, generator or a magneto. Just don't know how many miles you could go before you have to recharge the battery.


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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:05 am

Bill

there is no need to go beyond 12VDC...

You are looking for reserve capacity, or Amp Hours (Ah) that a battery can provide. Deep Cycle batteries typically provide the highest Ah ratings. Coils running at < 1.5A will run a very long time on a 100 Ah battery...far longer than you could stand to drive for an entire day, that's for sure.

There are a myriad of choices and I'll show one, for example: https://www.batterywholesale.com/produc ... dUQAvD_BwE
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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by Quickm007 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:19 am

Georges I loved your idea. I will remove the generator and use a block off plate. I rebuilt very nicely my generator so I do not need it at all and my battery it is brand new. I will used the generator for my speedster project.
Super Mario Bross ;)

1911 Touring
1914 race car project

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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by Quickm007 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:33 am

I forget to say, I'm set with a 12 volts battery maybe I'm ok with the generator? Any thoughts?
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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by George Hand » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:25 am

Mario, 12 volts can be hard on the starter Bendix, I have a 12 volt battery in a '25 pickup that I bought this past winter with a flywheel mag that's inoperable and I am getting by with that. It also has a generator. My 1912 pickup has a non generator engine, when I bought it 12 years ago it came with a 8 volt battery for the coils, that battery died and I replaced it with a 12 volt only charged either a couple times a year. I have no electric starter on the '12 and it has a working flywheel magneto. I you are having starter issues running on 12 volt the field coils can be modified from series to parallel. This modification should be done with rewound or new starter coils as they need to be removed from the starter case.


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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by fliverfan » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:10 am

If the generator is cut off from the battery, or battery by use of a master shut off, wouldn't you have to re-polarize the generator every time it's turned back on?


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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by Scott_Conger » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:40 am

Bill

No
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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by Mark Gregush » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:46 am

The generator is self energizing and does not require outside power input to function. About the only times it would be need to be "flashed" is maybe after a full rebuild, been sitting for many years or a change from - to + ground or the reverse. While there might be other cases where it might need to be "flashed", just disconnecting the battery would/should not be one of them. If disconnecting your battery and you need to flash each each time to get it to work, there are other issues at hand that might need to be addressed.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Wiring diagram need it for a special set up.

Post by Quickm007 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:16 am

To avoid the 12 volts be hard on the starter Bendix a friend of me modified the starter to allow to be smooth with the bandix with wires insides. So I do not have to be worry with this. And also a use a cut-off of 12 volts bought at Lang's.
Super Mario Bross ;)

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