MTFCA Forum

I’m thinking of repositioning my floor starter Switch, on my model T. The way the cab is configured, I am always hitting it.
My bench seat has a location on the face, to place a switch. Has anyone relocated their switch and if so, could I have some pointers , such as Photos etc.

Thanks in advance George

One solution: Use a 6V starter solenoid and put a pushbutton switch on the dash, or wherever it's most convenient.

George,

You didn't say what model car you have. Is the gas tank under the seat? If it is, you have to be EXTRA careful with the battery cables so as NOT to short out on the tank.

Jerry's idea is a good one as you can route the battery cables where ever they are safe to go.

IF you have the room, you might mount the switch directly to the floor board in an out of the way spot. You might have to add support to the floor board so it doesn't flex when using the starter button.

Good Luck

Ah! Keep it where it is. It is part of the mystique!

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 19, 2024 1:58 pm

One solution: Use a 6V starter solenoid and put a pushbutton switch on the dash, or wherever it's most convenient.

Even original T floor starter switches are known to be troublesome, and the repos have even a worse reputation. If authenticity is not a concern, mounting a pushbutton switch with a solenoid will solve your problem, and you can leave the floor mounted switch in the floorboard for "looks".

Original type switches work best and last longest when the driver presses straight down on the switch with a firm, quick motion and holds it down firmly until the engine starts. It's a good idea to prepare the engine to start and run as conditions demand, and so avoid having to make several attempts to start it and keep it running. Adding a solenoid to the system makes pressing the switch firmly less important and removes the heavy electrical load from it, which can be expected to extend the life of the switch, prevent overheating the switch, and help to protect the starter drive. A solenoid will deliver a quick, firm connection and a quick, clean release, which gives the best starter drive performance. Whatever type of switch arrangement you have, it's best not to operate the starter for more than ten seconds at a time. If more cranking is needed, let the starter rest for half a minute or so.

If you have a distributor type ignition, using a starter solenoid with an ignition resistor cut out terminal may give better starting. Using one with magneto ignition might put battery current on the magneto winding while cranking if the switch was on MAG.

I don't understand how the use of a solenoid would take any electrical load off the starter switch. No matter how it is controlled, whatever amperage that the starter requires will still have to pass through the switch. Am I missing something?

I don't understand how the use of a solenoid would take any electrical load off the starter switch. No matter how it is controlled, whatever amperage that the starter requires will still have to pass through the switch. Am I missing something?

The solenoid has the heavy duty conacts to activate the starter motor. The switch works with low amperage to activate the solenoid.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 20, 2024 10:46 am

If you have a distributor type ignition, using a starter solenoid with an ignition resistor cut out terminal may give better starting. Using one with magneto ignition might put battery current on the magneto winding while cranking if the switch was on MAG.

How on Earth would it do that? (Put battery power to the mag, that is.)

The solenoid acts exactly the same as the original starter button. The only difference is, instead of pushing the starter switch with your foot, you actuate it electrically, (that's the solenoid part).

You could relocate it to the lip that holds the front floorboard, it would be an easy mount and out of the way.

The solenoid with the ignition terminal makes that terminal hot when the solenoid is closed. If you hooked the ignition terminal to the battery terminal on the coil box, it would put battery power to the coils whenever the solenoid was closed. If the ignition was switched to MAG, would that put battery current to the magneto?

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 20, 2024 1:37 pm

The solenoid with the ignition terminal makes that terminal hot when the solenoid is closed If you hooked the ignition terminal to the battery terminal on the coil box, it would put battery power to the coils whenever the solenoid was closed. If the ignition was switched to MAG, would that put battery current to the magneto?

NO... I am sure you could find a way to rewire things improperly to kill your mag. If you worked @ it.
However, a starter solenoid is wired directly like the OEM manual switch. In cable terminal also gets the main power wire (yellow) to provide power to the terminal block to ign switch. (like OEM) [If the ign switch is wired correctly, the mag is never in the loop to see battery voltage.]
Solenoid Difference being: another wire also attached to the in solenoid terminal. (that's 3, battery, car power & solenoid power) That wire goes to a remote push to activate solenoid switch. Another wire goes from the remote switch to the solenoid activation terminal.

My question pertains to the type of solenoid that has both an "S" terminal and an "I" terminal. I think that if the switch was on mag, it would send battery juice to the magneto with the solenoid closed, so it's a no-no for a car with a Ford magneto. It would be fine with a distributor system that used an ignition resistor.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 20, 2024 1:37 pm

If the ignition was switched to MAG, would that put battery current to the magneto?

No, because the ignniton switch is switched to MAG, whihch sends mag power to the coils. The other thing is, I would not tap into the battery power terminal of the coilbox to energize the solenoid. You need to hook up to the pos. battery terminal on the solenoid.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 20, 2024 3:44 pm

I think that if the switch was on mag, it would send battery juice to the magneto with the solenoid closed, so it's a no-no for a car with a Ford magneto. It would be fine with a distributor system that used an ignition resistor.

If your wiring is correct, there is no way that switching to mag would send battery power to the magneto, regardless of what starter switch is used. The starting circuit and magneto circuit are independent systems.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 20, 2024 3:44 pm

My question pertains to the type of solenoid that has both an "S" terminal and an "I" terminal. I think that if the switch was on mag, it would send battery juice to the magneto with the solenoid closed, so it's a no-no for a car with a Ford magneto. It would be fine with a distributor system that used an ignition resistor.

Just don't connect anything to the I terminal. It's purpose is to send the full 12 volts to the coil when the starter button is pressed. As soon as you stop using whatever switch you use for operating the starter motor, current stops flowing to the I terminal. If your T is six volts, or you are using the magneto, you don't need it. If it's 12 volts and uses a distributor, you probably do.

As indicated above the "I" post is for a distributor with a ballast resistor
-- --
3 terminal vs 4 terminal come in 6v & 12v
-- --
The wiring diagram with a push button does not really change anything to the electrical system --

I'm building a speedster that will have the battery in the "tool box" at the rear of the car. Does it make a difference if the solenoid is mounted closer to the starter or the battery?

schwabd1 wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 22, 2024 6:05 pm

I'm building a speedster that will have the battery in the "tool box" at the rear of the car. Does it make a difference if the solenoid is mounted closer to the starter or the battery?

It would not matter.

George, I think you are asking to mount the switch horizontally, through the steel seat bracket.
If you are talking about your RPU, I don't know.
However, ...about the improved Coupe, then there is room and angle iron solves a lot of issues. You would need to protect it from your own weight as it presses the seat downward. The advantage is that the terminals are removed farther from the outside elements. Seems to me it would be difficult to push the switch in (to the rear of the car) mounted that way, with lack of leverage. I think moving it to the top of the boards is a better option.

Regardless of where you mount the relay solenoid you need to use the correct gauge wire from battery to it & then from it to the starter . Auto parts stores are likely selling 12volt cable (4 or 2 gauge) which is not suitable for a 6volt system. 6volt needs 1/0 gauge.

I let kids get in the car they always seem to step on the button. I solved that problem by placing a roll of electrical tape over the button problem solved.

Brian, Letting kids in the cars is a good idea. It gets them interested in model Ts. I solved the "electric" issues with a battery cutout switch. NO power = no problems. It's also a safety device preventing any wiring problems from shorting out, without someone being around the car. It's also a security device as no power = no theft without pushing.

Good Luck, Be Safe

Original wiring used 00 wire. Using solenoid what is the size wire connecting the original foot starter?

Hi George,
I once made a little hinged flip over cover for a guy that had that issue. With the cover over the switch you couldn't press the button just
flip it over with your heel to start & back over to prevent accidental engagement.
Craig.

Hi George,
I once made a little hinged flip over cover for a guy that had that issue. With the cover over the switch you couldn't press the button just
flip it over with your heel to start & back over to prevent accidental engagement.
Craig.