MTFCA Forum

I recently bought a speedster project and it came with an assembled short block with a drilled “C” crank (counterweighted Model A crank) and insert rods. The closer that I look at it, the more questions that I have. I don’t necessarily want to change any of these parts, but I would like to know what I’m working with.

1) What rods are these? I believe that the rod bolts are modern TTY bolts and have already been torqued. So I believe that I’ll have to relegate these to “shop bolts” and get new ones for the final assembly. And as seen here, the bolt heads will need to be modified for clearance towards the side of the block. The rods do have the T style wrist pin pinch bolts.
2) What lifters are these? The lifters are cupped for modern pushrods (which I consider a good thing for the Roof 8 head that is going on this engine). But I mic’ed the exposed part of the lifters and they measure at .499-.500. Given that .030 over T tappets are .467 and these are in there now, this block is not ever going back to T lifters. They do appear to be made for pressure oil, but I don’t know of a way to reasonably pressurize a Model T valvetrain, nor do I think that it is needed.
3) What kind of camshaft is this? I know that you can’t tell the grind from here, but the flywheel end of the camshaft sticks out further than other T cams that I have seen. I know that one can install a Model A cam in a Model T block, is this what they look like when that is done?
I believe that folks here have seen lots of mods over the years, maybe some of this looks familiar.

Keep crankin’,
Eric

All I can add is the lifters are ford Y block. 292, 312.
A view of the cam might help to identify if its model A.

Thanks for the tappet info, John. That is 1 mystery solved.

As far as the camshaft goes, it looks pretty much like a cam. More pics here:


Maybe there is some subtle clue about this camshaft in these pics.

Keep crankin’,
Eric

Cam could be long for vw oil pump. Just guessin.

Actually, the camshaft is too long to use a VW oil pump. With the existing length, there is not enough room left off the end of the camshaft for the pump to clear the flywheel. I was already prepared to add the slot in the end of the shaft that drives the oil pump, but at this point there is less room than required for the McEachern adapter and pump. That's what inspired this thread.

Eric, you may want to consider a different oil pump...., VW pumps are designed as a submerged pump like an aircraft pan engine. Also driving from a slot from the back cam can cause linear growth from heat damaging the pump. Years back there were many failures in my shop. I never pursued the VW system as it is not meant to be elevated out of the oil. Yes..., the original VW air cooled engines use the cam to drive the oil pump but the cam is half the length and one lope does two valves.

Just Sayin'

Hank

Other pieces parts come with it? Box of clues?

Hi Jeffrey,

No box of loose engine block parts. Just the assembled short block as seen in the pics.

Keep crankin',
Eric

Your cam is the correct stock length. It looks funny because someone used to short a bushing.
The bushing protrudes about 1/2" from the back of the block. The bushing should be notched on the front top side about 1/8"
So, you have no issue with the cam.

Hi Hank,

I don't really want to hang an oil pump off the back of the cam timing gear (where the generator usually lives) because that's where I want the generator or alternator. I have a strong dislike for belt driven alternators. But I am not opposed to a front plate oil pump. My '27 Runabout with a Rajo head has a "3 in 1" front plate with distributor, water pump and oil pump, as seen in the yellow "Speed and Sport" book. It also has a belt driven alternator which I really want gone. But that is a different project...

At this point, my plan for the Roof 8 engine (this thread), is a Texas T clip-on distributor base and a FSI centrifugal distributor, no manual advance. If I need to adapt the FSI dizzy to a dist/oil pump front plate that was built for a Bosch 600, that might be doable, if a plate like that could be found. But availability of parts is what drove me to the VW oil pump, clip-on dizzy, Atlas water pump, Pharis/Fronty water manifold solution.

So what VW oil pump alternatives are out there today that are not a B210 pump?

Keep crankin',
Eric

A brass bailing pump that runs off a continuous shaft thru the water pump.

Hank

Bug pump on the back of my cam, been there running just fine for many decades. You just need to insure the pickup and discharge are in the correct orientation. This ensures when shut down the pump is not allowed to leak the oil out and when running the flywheel helps to force the oil in.

Yes, a T cam must be shortened slightly when modifying it for driving my pump setup. Not a big deal when adding the drive slot. Yes, you have a T cam there.

Hi Dan,

Thank you for the confirmation. I’ve sent you an email for more specific information.

Keep crankin’,
Eric

You will not be disappointed with Dans setup. I have installed many cam driven pumps over the years from components. After introduction to DMC’s setup that is all I use. Properly installed they will pickup almost immediately after sitting for months. I haven’t had a failure. Great product !

These are Dan's parts on my engine with a full length B crank. Great parts and a fine guy to work with.