Muffler mounting.

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Moxie26
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Muffler mounting.

Post by Moxie26 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:26 pm

Experiencing a problem keeping the exhaust pipe in the muffler. Presently have a stainless steel muffler on the 26. Open question for forum members. Do you use a muffler clamp or, have the exhaust pipe float inside the muffler connection?

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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Oldav8tor » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:45 pm

Which four members? Kidding! My understanding is that you let the exhaust pipe float in the muffler casting. Trying to fix it in place can lead to other problems.
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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Moxie26 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:22 pm

Excuse The King's English... Meant to type " for forum members ".......lol. if it doesn't rain tomorrow I'll take the car out of the garage drop the muffler reform the bracket that holds the muffler and may consider drilling another hole just forward a present hole 2 remount the muffler and let the exhaust pipe move within the muffler with no clamp


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Original Smith » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:54 pm

The holes you need are already factory drilled in the frame. T's never used a muffler clamp. Do your research!


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Humblej » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:02 pm

With the modern repop muffler and pipe it needs a muffler clamp. Tried to do without one but it would not stay together. Original pipes went all the way through to the back of the muffler and held the muffler together, but the repop muffler holds itself together and the pipe is crammed into the front. Some are lucky and they stay together without a clamp, mine would not, so I had to resort to using a modern muffler clamp. Ford did not use a muffler clamp but we are not using the ford muffler and pipe system either.


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Kerry » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:14 pm

Never come across that Jeff, only in a few inches and not clamped, it needs to be able to move freely with chassis twist, that was Fords original intent.


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Wilbur » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:01 am

Found that wrapping a wire around the tail pipe just in front of muffler up over the frame holds the font of the muffler up and allows the tail pipe to move without coming out. No need for a clamp.


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Ken Buhler » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:54 am

Robert,
Loosen the pipe at the manifold and move it slightly aside. You must mount the muffler in the frame and then WITHOUT the pipe in place, use a 2X4 or some wood to force the muffler to the correct fore/aft position by bending the mount brackets. Then swing the pipe beside the inlet to see where you are at. This may take a few tries but it will work.

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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:06 am

The rear sheet metal is what flexes just like the original setup. Use the clamp, it would be no different then how the pressed steel end mufflers were made from the factory. Originally the exhaust pipe went all the way thru the muffler, thus the muffler was a unit with the pipe, the exhaust pipe being the inner tube. The only time the exhaust pipe needs to float is with the old style with cast ends that was mounted to the frame at both ends.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Kerry » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:08 am

I don't know why some think the engine pipe went all the way through the muffler?? from the earliest books on, it states to clean the muffler it can be removed without undoing the long pipe
img448.jpg
(engine pipe) slide back and drop after undoing the mount bolts, you have a few inches before the muffler will hit the back spring. One can see that the pipe is only in a few inches.


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by wayne sheldon » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:38 am

The earlier mufflers up until some point in the very late '10s had a shorter head-pipe and just slid inside the front of the assembled muffler mounted by two bolts to the rear of the frame rail. This arrangement tends to rattle quite a bit, and some people use a variety of copper wire or brass shim gimmicks to reduce the rattling.
Later mufflers, the majority of production from somewhere around 1919 onward, had longer head-pipes which the muffler was assembled onto the head-pipe itself. They bolted with one bolt at the rear of the frame rail as the longer head-pipe provided the front support to the muffler.

The muffler shown in the diagram posted by Kerry is an early style. Later styles did NOT have the tail pipe on the back end as shown in the diagram.


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Allan » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:20 am

Mark is correct. The later mufflers did have the pipe going clear through the muffles to the back cover. They were bolted together as a unit with the exhaust pipe. This enabled mounting with just one bolt at the back, necessary flexing absorbed by the one pressed steel mounting. Fitting a clamp at the front will give the same rigidity as original set-ups, flex again being accommodated by the back mounting.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Kerry » Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:37 am

Found it in the parts books, the longer pipe in 1921, now I have to say I would and don't have any faith in clamping the muffler on a short engine pipe and relying on just a rear piece of tin bracket to hold it all up.
Reason for saying that is I had such a configuration on one of my T's and on a run it broke also taking out the brass flange nut as well. Wired it all up and tried for home, some miles later the fire wall was glowing. it made a good story for our club mag, someone with a little imagination had said I pis#ed on it to put it out but it was realy a can of degreaser (water based)

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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Fordfarm » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:15 am


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by DanTreace » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:05 am

Phil

Nice tooling!

Makes a real good roll just like original ‘21-‘27 exhaust pipes.

Here’s Orininal Smith’s first rendering I have with a welded ring for a stop. Your work is amazingly good.

Just needing the muffler shells to complete the exhaust system.
613CC1C1-AE6C-4466-B3D5-200379E60833.jpeg
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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Original Smith » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:27 am

I had 50 of those made a few years ago. They all sold in a week! It's too bad someone with some bucks can't make them again. They used them from 1921 on. If Ford could do it, it can still be done. I have a NOS exhaust pipe, and it has the Ford script every 18".


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Original Smith » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:36 am

One thing I just noticed, Dan didn't post the bar that goes through the last two slots that the carriage bolt goes through. The part number is 4032. Ford made two styles of these. The early ones were a channel, and the late ones were a simple bar. Bob Bergstadt used to have these, and probably still might?


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Moxie26 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:32 pm

What anyone have the specifications from the original Ford drawings and tell us how far the exhaust pipe went into the muffler??? I'm thinking maybe halfway in?


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Humblej » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:16 pm

Robert, they go all the way in.


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Moxie26 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:17 pm

Jeff:

So you're telling me the exhaust pipe from the engine slides into the muffler the entire length of the muffler ??????????????? Really ??????????

Not so with the vendor supplied parts.


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Kerry » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:35 pm

Robert,
I have learnt from this thread and from some research parts books etc, yes it did, the small inner muffler tube was deleted in 1921 and the longer engine pipe replaced it.


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Allan » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:48 pm

The pipe went clear to the back end plate. In effect, it became the inner small shell.
Allan from down under.

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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by dlmyers » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:11 pm

Here are some links to earlier discussions about this. Sorry they are not in chronological order.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1451271115

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1450198042

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/25 ... 1332411157

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1452293846

I bought the last one of Larry's pipes that Lang's had for sale but have not yet used it because I don't have the proper ends and can't figure out how to hold that bolt in place while you assemble everything.
The old forums are a gold mine of information.


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Moxie26 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:34 pm

Well maybe Larry should get back into reproducing the correct parts


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Allan » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:45 am

The difficulty re-creating the original pipes is likely the need to work some kind of upset in the pipe up to which the front muffler end abuts The Canadians found a cheap effective solution which is dead easy to replicate. They simply drilled the pipe and installed a large diameter split pin [cotter pin] through the hole. The front muffler end simply jammed against this pin.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by Moxie26 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:52 am

All your replies are appreciated.

With Ford's flexible frame, the theory of the manifold exhaust pipe entering and secured by a center stud and nut would be great if the pipe and muffler ran centerline in the frame. Since the pipe and muffler run off center of frame flex, the pipe not only has to rotate inside muffler but also will move fore and aft due to road conditions. Now if only the vendors had longer manifold pipes to use with the modified mufflers now available.

Bob J.

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Re: Muffler mounting.

Post by DanTreace » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:12 pm

I've found the vendor pipes to be satisfactory, but at times the original curves are missed by the modern pipe bending machines, that leave a crease in the bend. At times, I have had to shorten the pipe, as it was too long.

BTY, the exhaust pipe and muffler are on only one frame rail, they move with it, the two frame rails may twist in relation to each other in opposite ways, but a single frame rail won't really twist on its own.

Depends much on the muffler you mount, stock, repro semi-stock, or aftermarket tractor muffler :D


IMG_4868 (2).jpg
Factory print

DCP_3522 - Copy (735x490).jpg
DCP_3522 - Copy (735x490).jpg (112.15 KiB) Viewed 1376 times
Factory later x-long pipe and muffler front plate, '22-'27 (this is the one with pipe all the way to the end plate) Compared to repro pipe, (lower one in photo), modified with my bad bend :shock: to help clear the hogshead, and clamped on repro muffler.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

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