MTFCA Forum

I like the idea of getting an auxiliary transmission on my model t like a warford or similar. But I want your opinions on these aux transmissions? an overdrive and underdrive would be nice for going faster and slower but still in high gear, but a lot of work goes into putting one in, and it will probably make my empty wallet die with just the thought of the cost. Should I save up and get one and tack it on? should I just forget about it? is getting an old crashbox and restoring it to speck worth it for the feel over using the constant mesh reproduction warford? is there too much a difference in feel anyways? I mean it is not going to happen any time soon if I go with it, but the general consensus of this forum would be nice in guiding my far future decision.

Thanks.

My choice would be a KC Warford. Driveshaft mods must be done correctly with any Warford-type auxiliary. If I added one, I'd get spare driveshaft parts and send them to the KC people to modify.

If the KC Warford fits your budget, go for it. The advantage of easy shifting would be real nice. Old style auxiallary transmissions take some getting used to when shifting on the fly. Initial investment lower with an early transmission if you find a good one. I run a Chicago, similar concept as 3 speed Warford and love it in my speedster.

Whichever way you go, get brakes that work at the rear wheels. Angel gear (true nuetral) can kill you.

walber wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 17, 2025 7:25 pm

If the KC Warford fits your budget, go for it. The advantage of easy shifting would be real nice. Old style auxiallary transmissions take some getting used to when shifting on the fly. Initial investment lower with an early transmission if you find a good one. I run a Chicago, similar concept as 3 speed Warford and love it in my speedster.

Whichever way you go, get brakes that work at the rear wheels. Angel gear (true nuetral) can kill you.

would you happen to know how much the investment of getting and fixing an old warford/similar is? Because I tend to go for the "fun" (difficult) options, I tend to lean in the direction of the crash box.

The early units had spur gears with no synchros. It's possible to shift without grinding gears if the throttle and gearshift are handled properly. It's also possible for the vehicle get rolling so fast downhill in neutral that you may not have enough engine RPM to get back into gear, leaving you with little or no braking ability when you need it most. The KC units do not have these shortcomings and they ought to be much quieter.

You can get an idea of what driving with the early Warfords is like if you have access to a circa 1950 Ford pickup or truck with a 4 speed transmission. Straight cut gear teeth and no synchromesh.

Lucas,

I have a KC Warford. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND it. There are advantages not widely advertised. 3 Speeds, TRUE NEUTRAL, easy to shift, runs smooth. KC warford will shorten your drive line for free. I believe they will do the drive line tube as well, but I'm not sure on that. You will have to shorten the radius rods.

I particularly like the True Neutral. In neutral, it allows you to start the engine WITHOUT any forward creep or worry. The engine starts so much easier with less load on the starter and/or the battery.

I realize it is expensive. I feel the benefits make it worthwhile.

Good Luck.

Quick search on e-bay will show you several originals for sale at quite a price range.
Hope that helps,
Kevin

I suggest you sit in a car with a Warford. I'm a big guy with big feet and there's just too little room for me to ride comfortably with the standard pedals and levers plus the warford shifter. A Ruckstell with the lever mounted on the far left works better for me.

A foot throttle comes in real handy with any of the auxiliary transmissions. The straight gears need rev matching to avoid ugly sounds.

It seems an OK 3 speed auxilliary box near me is typically in the 500 to 600 range. Condition obviously matters.

BTW, Warfords come in iron and aluminum cases and while many are three speed there are also 2 speed versions.

If you live in flatland country, a Warford or similar in overdrive will let you cruise somewhat faster without over reving the engine. Again brakes are a good thing.

Folks dealing with hills or mountains frequently find a Ruckstell 2 speed rear axle a better alternative as you get an intermediate gear between T low and T high. Again, brakes at the rear wheels are highly recommended as Ruckstell axles have been known to find neutral. They shouldn't have neutral but wear or poor ajdustment can make it possible.

The model of T you have and how you plan to use the car and what changes you make can open many considerations.

A stock Model T is a pleasure to drive if you can get away from modern traffic. If you are new, I highly reccomend to start with what Henry had in mind and get used to driving and enjoying it. You may well find that you really like it that way. Most of the folks on this forum prefer near or completely stock T's.

I had a lot of fun with a dead stock '25ish touring car for many years where the only changes were improved rear brakes and a distributor. Later I was bitten by the speedster bug, a totally new adventure.

Well I drive the thing around town, it's residential grid but it doesn't stretch to far, the grid is boxed in by 40-50 mph roads. It would be nice to be able to cruise faster than 30mph to get from my grid to the next one in a safer manner. Going below the speed limit is a disaster waiting to happen here in Florida. That's why I'm giving this aux transmission thing a good think over. Well so I can save up for one.

Is there a such thing as a rukstell but with an overdrive instead of an underdrive? They seem easier to get installed and I really just need a overdrive, an underdrive is nice but not necessary for my goals for now. The only issue is I've never heard of an overdrive rukstell.

You can achieve an overdrive with a Ruckstell by fitting a taller rear axle gears etc like 3:1 but thiswill seriously compromise your braking. Sometimes woah is more important than go!
Allan from down under.

I'm running three Ruckstells and a KC Warford. The KC Warford is the hot set up. If you drive a lot, you'll love how the car operates.

OK, the hobby is big enough to accommodate everyone, but I always wonder why folks want to make a Model T modern? If you need three speeds then get a Model A or god forbid a Chevy. The fun of Model T is that it is a Model T. Enjoy the antique automotive engineering. When asked how fast my car will go I always answer with two responses. It will go 45 but it only has brakes for 32 as Allan from Down Under says. Nonetheless, I feel comfortable at 40, should get you safely from one neighbourhood to the next.

Loftfield wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 18, 2025 7:40 am

OK, the hobby is big enough to accommodate everyone, but I always wonder why folks want to make a Model T modern? If you need three speeds then get a Model A or god forbid a Chevy. The fun of Model T is that it is a Model T. Enjoy the antique automotive engineering. When asked how fast my car will go I always answer with two responses. It will go 45 but it only has brakes for 32 as Allan from Down Under says. Nonetheless, I feel comfortable at 40, should get you safely from one neighbourhood to the next.

Modern is not the goal, I agree in that fun is the t it self, but when 40mph means 60 to the average Floridian driver it's hazardous to go 30. Dosent going 40 start breaking things especially in the transmission? I mean if I can push it I don't need an aux trans, just I thought it turns the gears into dust going past 30.

I'm glad this thread popped up, As I'm getting ready to install a KC Warford when they come available. Iv already bought and shortened that a spare driveshaft and torque tube so that is ready to go. I was getting ready to post a thread looking for different opinions on the transmission. How many installed there transmissions with the frame support's? I agree about the cost. I'm converting to rear disk brakes to get ready for the Angle gear just in case and the kit alone is just under to $700.00. Of course that will be on top of the price of the transmission its self which is going be a little over $3000.00. But there's no price on safety. There is a fellow in the next town down from me that has a Warford and the stick shift is close to the seat so lots of room for big feet. One thing I will mention that is if you want a new Warford you need to get yourself on the list or you may not get one. Call Layne Machine Works at 816-520-8522. I was told the new transmission will be ready in January.

Loftfield wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 18, 2025 7:40 am

OK, the hobby is big enough to accommodate everyone, but I always wonder why folks want to make a Model T modern? If you need three speeds then get a Model A or god forbid a Chevy. The fun of Model T is that it is a Model T. Enjoy the antique automotive engineering. When asked how fast my car will go I always answer with two responses. It will go 45 but it only has brakes for 32 as Allan from Down Under says. Nonetheless, I feel comfortable at 40, should get you safely from one neighbourhood to the next.

Couldn't agree more. Drive it a lot some say? How about 3200 miles a year? On one car alone! Sometimes half as much on the other. Stock transmission, quiet running, smooth, etc. Like Loftfield says, keeping it "authentic" basically is the fun of it. Be honest with ya, even 40 is too fast in these antiques that were designed for a max of 35 mph! 30 is perfect, she purrs like a kitten, we can enjoy the scenery better and still have time to watch out for the idjuts out there trying to kill us in these wonderful cars. But, to each his own I guess. And oldav8tor is right, if ya gotta have a Ruckstell, the LEFT side shifter is the only way to go!

The stock transmission has no issues with running 40 to 50 MPH. No gears are in operation when it is in "High". A Model T roadster or touring with an engine in good condition and in good balance with aluminum pistons and 10W30 oil can run easily at speeds up to about 45 MPH for extended periods.

A KC Warford is worth the one-time cost. It will provide a suitable gear for any operating condition the car is capable of, plus a free neutral, and speeds to 50 MPH and beyond on level ground. You can shift it like a modern manual transmission, with no special skills required. You can shift it up or down, at will, for braking, hill climbing, or running fast on the open road. Or you can put it in "1 to 1" and you will have a driving experience exactly like a stock T.

For flat country, like Florida, buying and rebuilding a Ruxtel and changing to 3:1 gearing would get you some of the advantages of a KC Warford at about the same cost, or a little more. With a KC Warford, stock braking is much improved by reason of having readily available intermediate ratios between Ford Low and Ford High with no wide gap between them and no danger of getting trapped in neutral.

Personally, I would not be concerned with adding auxiliary brakes just on account of installing a KC Warford. The fact that you can shift a KC Warford up or down at will, and that getting "trapped" in neutral is not a hazard, you'd have much better braking than stock by adding one. A heavy car, or mountain driving, or heavy urban traffic, or all of the above would argue for improved braking, regardless of whether you have an auxiliary transmission or not.

My car runs at 1800 RPM at about 44 MPH with 4.40/4.50 X 21 tires on Ford wire wheels. It will go a good deal faster than that, but I limit it to 48 MPH. It seems happiest at 42 MPH.

"It will go 45 but it only has brakes for 32 as Allan from Down Under says..."

Allan is being generous. A stock T, especially the pre-1925 cars, has brakes for 15 MPH and tires for 5 MPH. Closed cars, even less. (32 MPH is about 50 feet per second!)

I did not buy a Model T because I wanted to drive it fast like a modern car. A Model T at 50 mph starts to feel scary and in my opinion can be unsafe, even with auxiliary brakes (I have hydraulic rear discs.) The Ruckstell gives you a gear between low and high which in my experience really helps performance in hill or mountain country, while the standard gearing is fine for 95%+ of the driving conditions I encounter.

As a previous poster mentioned, belonging to the Model T hobby does not limit you to one line of thinking. You can do what you want with your car. For me, nothing beats driving a open car at modest speeds thru a beautiful countryside, especially when I'm joined by friends doing the same thing. When driving my modern car on the freeways about the best I can do is watch the traffic and the white and yellow lines....not much fun in that.

The KC Warford provides readily accessible intermediate gears. That's a good thing for hill climbing, traffic, and improved downhill engine braking and transmission brake action. Putting the Warford in low when backing down a hill in reverse will give much improved engine braking.

Balloon tires, shock absorbers, and 5:1 steering gears make an open T very stable at 50 MPH. It's important to have round wheels that run true and that are in balance.

I run my 19 on open going from 30 to 35, Thats where the engine feels good anything past that and I dont like how the engine feels. I want a Warford to help keep the engine RPM's down to where it feels good and still get just a few extra MPH. I doubt I would ever go over 40 with my car. Where I'm at here in Melbourne Florida the roads are mostly straight as a string with no hills. If I move to Pa in the future the transmission will help with the mountains there

Since you indicated you want to neighborhood hop and not do 60 to 100 mile day trips in your T I suggest the following
more affordable upgrades:
Stromberg Carb setup.
ECCT and an I-timer and tune your coils with the software.
Make sure your valves are good and seated/adjusted properly.
I drive on the eastern half of US 58 which is in the piedmont region of VA and posted 60mph. With the above set up, my touring car will do 40 to 45 mph all day and some of the longer rolling hills will hold 30 at the top with out lugging. If I ventured further west than Danville and did more daily driving or cross country touri g, I would explore Aux trans/diff options but more so for hill climbing from a stand still or to avoiding holding low down during a climb.

I'd want a KC Warford for flatland Florida for speed and versatility, and I'd definitely want one in Pennsylvania for speed, hill climbing, and enhanced braking. Pennsylvania is mostly hilly, but it offers some of the most beautiful rural roads in the USA. For reference, a stock Model T with tires of 30" OD will run about 50 MPH at 2,000 engine RPM. A stock T engine in good condition with aluminum pistons and good balance can handle about 1800 RPM, which is about 45 MPH. An overdrive gear will allow speeds up to 55 MPH or so on level ground with no headwind. Just as important, having a gear lower than High will allow maintaining more speed on hills. With a stock Ford, you are limited to about 10 MPH in Low, and 8 MPH is better. With an intermediate gear between Ford Low and Ford High you can maintain higher speeds up steep hills and enjoy better engine braking. The ability to shift gears at will with a KC Warford would be a very useful improvement for driving in traffic, especially in hilly country.

A stock or near stock T is short on horsepower for speeds over about 45 MPH. To get good results with any transmission setup, you need an engine in good condition that is in good tune and good balance that is capable of delivering its full power.

Hi Lucas,
To answer your question:

Is there a such thing as a rukstell but with an overdrive instead of an underdrive?

Not really, the closest is a Moore. See this link: https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/app.php/gallery/image/2218

It still requires shortening of drive shaft and housing and I don't know how easy they are to find.

The problem with the Moore, and the similar Universal Gear Company two speed units? Is that most of them were made to be an underdrive, usually about a fifty percent gear reduction.
Yes, they "can" be turned around, made into an overdrive. However, that results in a very steep overdrive. I did know someone many years ago that had a Moore turned into an overdrive, in a lightweight racing car with a very strong flathead engine. And oboy was that car fast! I think he had four to one gears in the rear end. That gave him an about two to one final drive ratio.

The similar Universal Gear Company two speed units were made and sold in both underdrive and overdrive versions. The underdrive was again about a fifty percent reduction. The overdrive units were a bit steep, but not nearly one to two.

Universal Gear Company and Rocky Mountain both made "six speed" transmissions for the model T. They were actually three speed progressive shift transmissions (3 X 2 = 6). I have had two Ts with those units and they are GREAT if you can get a good one!

I have never driven a model T with one of the modern Layne transmissions, so I cannot speak to that experience. The first era auxiliary transmission I had was a big case Muncie over fifty years ago. I have had several small case Muncies and a Warford since, and love having them and using them.
I also really like driving bone stock model Ts.

I'm told that the new Layne transmissions are synchromesh gears. Again, If you want one you need to call them and get on the list as they sell out fast

The beauty of the Layne transmission is the overdrive and underwrite they provide, on top of the easy shifting. If you like, it can be set up to drive your T in standard Ford gearing
Allan from down under.