MTFCA Forum

I have a 22 Tourer, RHD, no starter model, no generator.

It's a standard T that I have restored with commutator, trembler coils and magneto and has always worked well.

Lately, it has begun to hate me by backfiring on starting, it tries to rip my arm off.

I'm over 80 and a bit slow to comprehend why it used to be good but it now isn't.

I decided it was the spark rod it needed lengthening, but the existing rod was incapable of being extended.

I built a new rod from 1/4 inch aluminium with ends turned down to suit the timer. After several trials and adjustments, it started and ran sweetly.

So I went for a drive, all is forgiven!

Brendan, it can be just old age catching up with the cranker! Things slow down, the effort that used to work is less, and without that same inertia exerted, the piston may not be going past top dead centre before it fires. You have done well by retarding the spark to compensate. You have to crank as though you mean it otherwise.

Allan from down under.

Glad you were able to find a problem and work a suitable solution but I am perplexed as to how something that has always been fine for you and the car changed?

Warwick, maybe the car didn't change. The cranker may be the change. It takes a more determined effort the older you get. Wait a few years and you will find this out.
Allan from down under.

Did you closely examine the timer? Just wondering if the locating pin for the rotor hasn't fallen out, allowing the rotor to drift. Your timer rod fix may be a temporary one, if so.

If the timer has been set up properly and the lever is in the fully retarded position, it shouldn't fire until past dead center so, in my opinion, the suggestion that it isn't being cranked fast enough should never be the issue.

Either the timer is out of adjustment or one of the wires or one of the terminals on the timer is touching something it shouldn't, etc.

I would also inspect the timer roller and make sure it is properly secured.

Slow cranking by an elderly fellow (Royce Peterson's father) - he was around 90 years old at the time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhEnNzv6LBM

Slow cranking is similar to a free start. Instead of strong-arming or fast spinning, you're putting the piston in the correct/ideal position so the cylinder fires and the engine does a majority of the work of starting on its own.

I would bet that what actually changed to cause the kicking is that the little crank arm on the bottom of the advance lever shaft is loose on the shaft and now has enough backlash that it no longer has enough travel to properly retard the spark. Making the rod to the timer longer then would have corrected the “full retard” position, but now it likely isn’t fully advancing… You should check that out.

As pointed out above, several things could cause the change in the car's behavior. I'd want to check out all the possibilities, and make certain that the timer, linkage, and wiring are in good order, given the fact that a kickback can be a serious issue for anyone of any age.

It won't affect kickback, but using a suitable motor oil can make starting easier. All the various linkages need to be in good shape and proper adjustment for safe starting and good performance once started. Dragging bands or a dragging clutch can make starting difficult, among other undesirable behaviors.

Adding to the arm-chair advice, be sure your new timer pull-rod is robust enough not to bend out of shape in service. Some aluminum stock is too soft for the duty. Good luck !!

Eric makes perfect sense. However, not every T is perfectly timed for hand cranking. The original post is about what had changed. What certainly changes for all of us is we age. With that comes decreased energy/power. The new linkage to the timer is likely to have reset the timing so that now the car fires after top dead centre, so no kickback.
Been there. Had kickback. Put in more cranking effort. Next step, change timing.

Allan from down under.

Allan,

As I know you're aware, when we set timing, we adjust to fire at approximately 15 degrees past TDC, with the spark lever at full retard. After doing that, why would it matter how fast you crank it? When timing is being adjusted, it's certainly done at a VERY slow speed, (stopped, in fact), so any cranking speed will exceed that. I would think that if your timing is set so marginally that you have to whip the crank around before it has a chance to bite you, (if that's even possible), you don't really have the timing adjusted correctly to begin with.

It's worthwhile for everyone who hand cranks a T to make certain that the initial timing is correct. Whether it USED to be correct or not doesn't matter NOW, so it is wise to check the linkage condition and adjustment from time to time. Keeping the powerplant in good overall condition and adjustment reduces frustration and adds a significant margin of safety when hand cranking. When starting on magneto, the ideal setting for easiest starting has to be found by trial and error. A well tuned engine, using the correct oil, and keeping all linkages in good condition and good adjustment will prevent serious damage, both to crankers and to electric starters, and it will practically eliminate situations where the car will not start readily on demand.

The original question was what has changed?
What made the car start kicking back? Nothing changed on the car. Enthusiastic, energetic cranking becomes harder with age.
That is what changes.
Setting the correct timing negates the problem. Changing the length of the timer connecting link will do that.
Alan from down under.