15-17 even length hinges

[Mark Gregush]

Was there a left and right side to the hinges or was one side simply flipped over? With even spaced holes on all the mounts seems like they might be that way.

[Wayne Sheldon]

The springs, bolts, screws, top strap "figure 8", etc, of course are the same from side to side and even across more years. However, the four main parts of the two hinges are quite different and cannot be changed around. There is an upper right, and a lower right, and an upper left, and a lower left, all DIFFERENT!
I said this in a previous thread for someone struggling with a messed up windshield where pieces were used in the wrong places and the windshield would not work properly. I really hate to say this again, because I like and admire what he has done for our hobby. I really do not even want to mention his name here because of how much I admire what he has done. Maybe he has since corrected it, I haven't looked for a few weeks now, but as of then, it was still wrong. I did try to send him a message about it twice, maybe they got lost in email never-never land, but I got no reply and no correction was made. I do NOT hold ANY animosity due to this. However. M V's drawing of the windshield hinges in the gallery are not correct. (I really hated to say that ). Most of what he does is incredible!
When I was restoring the hinges for my '15, I spent a couple hours sorting through all the hinges I had. They ranged from 1914, to about one and a half set of '15 to early '17 (in very poor condition), to two nearly NOS later style ('20ish), and a small box full of loose parts.
I can post pictures here, if they are on my computer. However I have a great deal of difficulty getting pictures from my camera onto my computer. And the one that used to help me with such things is often no longer able to.

If you like, I can try to do a wordy explanation later, or I will try to find the previous thread that had some descriptions and some photo by others. To do the wordy explanation, would require I bring in the spare hinges I have since gotten to make sure I get the details correct. ( Isn't that always the way, I restored a real '15ish hinge that was in such poor condition nobody but a fool like me would restore it. Two weeks after I get it looking beautiful, rust pits filled with J B Weld, major twist and bent all straightened, structural crack welded, gusseted and brazed, not Stynoski material, but beautiful, and in the box waiting to be installed, a nice pair fell into my lap.)

[Mark Gregush]

Thank you Wayne. Looks like I have two drivers side hinges. (or passenger side, I will have to look again) One of the 4 hinge pieces is a bronze casting.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Mark G, I found the recent previous thread. I went to some length trying to make clear the differences between the two sides, and I think I got all the offsets and inside versus outside parts in the proper order. If you want to verify what pieces you have, I would suggest reading through my several descriptions.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4689&p=35675&hilit= ... nge#p35675

I have never seen a cast bronze windshield hinge for a 1914 or later open T. I wonder if someone had it cast because they couldn't find a real one? Is your cast piece the "inner" or "outer" part of the hinge? (Note, on one side, the outer part is on the upper frame, while on the other side the outer part is on the lower frame.)

[Mark Gregush]

Wayne;
Thanks again. I went out and looked at my 21. Looks like I have two pairs of uppers. No offset. The bronze one is an inner, passenger side. The 18> style had the offset on the lower hinge.

[Hap_Tucker]

Mark,

There are some good illustrations from the Price List of Parts for the 1915-early 1917 equal length windshield hinges. Not only are the left and right hinges different, but the parts that make them up are different. They can be mixed and matched incorrectly and can also be mixed incorrectly with the later offset mid 1917-1922 hinges.

Please see the illustrations and discussions at: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/31911.html

and

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/525076.html

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

[Mark Gregush]

In a nut shell looks like I have 2 each 7805X and 7807X uppers. That would work for 15-21 cars ether as OE or replacement. Reading some of the post, sounds like there were a lot of 15-17 that got the same setup.

[Wayne Sheldon]

The real '15/'16 outer piece has lines connecting the dots (slots connecting the dimples from the back side). I don't know for certain when those lines/slots were discontinued as unnecessary and a cost savings, but all '17 to '22 hinges I have looked closely at do not have the slots. Only the real '15/'16/early '17 ones. There is also a minor difference in the inner piece between the even fold and offset fold hinges. Much too difficult to explain in words.

I, and others, often use the word "offset" in describing the variations in T windshield hinges and pieces. Unfortunately, it is a poor word choice, because there are actually two different "offsets" being discussed. One is where the hinge pin is offset up from the lower frame to fold the upper frame into a near middle height. The other "offset" is in the hinge's front-to-back tangent which holds the upper frame forward of the lower frame by about a quarter of an inch. This is to allow rain to run down from the upper glass onto the front of the lower glass.
I don't know if we could find a couple better word choices? And even if we could, would we be able to change several hundred people's minds to use different words?
Oh well. Maybe another day. Just so long as we can keep straight what we think we are talking about.

[Mark Gregush]

Like this?

[Hap_Tucker]

Mark,

Yes, like you are showing -- it has a ridge/raised area. That was shown at the posting: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/525076.html where Royce posted the photo of a 1915 windshield hinge shown below:

Sometimes that is very easy to see in a photo and other times it is in the shadow and not easy to see.

Wayne,

Good point. Maybe Equal Length Arms and unequal length arms would be better. That is the wording the MTFCI 7th Edition Judging Guidelines use. And that clarifies the hinge (which was not necessarily changed at the exact same time as when the windshield brackets were changed from the riveted style to the later mid 1917 - 1922 style that held the lower windshield frame with screws instead of the rivets. )

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off (with the wrong style hinges... but it makes the car look newer....)