MTFCA Forum

I don’t recall ever seeing much discussion on engine splash pans on these boards over the years. Just curious whether anyone has researched them, and if there is a chronology that attends changes in their form.

Question arises from an original condition ‘23 centerdoor with this pan, in 64 years of “T-ing” I have never seen one like this.

My 24 roadster had a set as shown, which was built in Nov 1923.

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The Engine pans serve two purposes: Obvious is to keep debris (water, mud, rocks) out of the engine bay. The second is to forma negative pressure area to increase air flow through the engine bay. Thinking back: pre 2000 American cars didn't have them, now all car have pans on the underside for the same purposes.

While some think there not needed & others do. Unfortunately we have no numbers on how many cars that have had over heating problems had them on or not.

Previous discussion https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php? ... ns#p366463

The air flow through the radiator and out through the louvers. Early hoods had no louvers, then more were added with he 1926-27 having the most

Looking at some earlier posts about engine splash pans I found a photo of 3 of different designs. The discussions had come to the conclusion that there wasn’t a clear timeline of the differences that occurred. There is one that has the oval bowl shaped into it like in the photo that’s posted that’s close but the bowl may be more shallow.

I can understand the pans being of use keeping dust, mud, water at bay, especially on the right hand side. Is there period literature to show the need for the development of pressure areas under the hood of a model T to draw air through the radiator> It seems to me to be a requirement for much more modern streamlined cars.

Allan from down under.

Didn't the left engine pan keep the steering from overcentering and giving you a wild ride.

Louvers were added to provide extra cooling - Ford progressed from none to 6 to18 on the 1926-27 to enhance cooling. It was obvious that it reduced heat buid-up in the engine bay. The leader in airflow/aerodynamics back in the day was Paul Jaray. His aerodynamic designs revolutionized engine cooling by integrating it into the vehicle's airflow, a necessity for his high-speed, streamlined "teardrop" cars. https://www.neroeditions.com/architecture-of-speed/

I don't think either pan was intended to serve as a steering stop. I do think they were intended to limit access for road splash, mud, dust, gravel, manure, etc. getting into the engine compartment, and I believe they improve airflow through the radiator when the car is moving, and in doing so, further limit the intrusion of road dust into the engine compartment.

Modern T drivers rarely roll on anything but pavement. It doesn’t take a lot of miles on dirt roads and in rain and snow to realize engine splash pans are a great idea ! They’re a pain in the neck to deal with on a major tear-down, and I also wonder if they actually improve cooling efficiency, but they “couldn’t hoit” - and, clumsy as I am, I really appreciate how they “catch” tools, bolts, nuts and other parts I drop, rather than losing the aforementioned in tall grass, mud, and heaven knows where !

Are you all talking about the tool box around the perimeter of the engine?

It would be an interesting test to see the temperature differences with or without the shields. moving and idling. may be a lot of work removing and installing them but some good documentation of findings would be nice. it would probably also have to be a good running T with a good radiator.
Love the tool box reference I can see that! lol

Bryant

Ford recognised that T models had a cooling problem. Louvred hoods were introduced towards the end of the brass era to help. No sooner than this was done, a larger radiator was introduced on the 1917 models, which continued with louvres in the hood. A still larger radiator was introduced in 1923. Then in 1926 more louvres were introduced. Looks as though engine pans were not much help other than catching dropped bits. Was not the introduction of louvres intended to allow hot air to escape the engine compartment, thereby allowing faster airflow through the radiator? Taking off the pans would help.

Paul Juray ...."aerodynamic designs revolutionised engine cooling by integrating it into the airflow, a necessity for high speed, streamlined 'teardrop' car." That doesn't sound like a T model to me. At 1920's T road speed, it would be interesting to know how the air flowed.

Allan from down under.

sitting on the fence
Engine pans, Bigger radiator, more louvers. When did they remove the engine pans? It’s as if they reached the best cooling they could get with the Model T and then made the Model A. Didn’t it have a water pump?
with these tin boxes It’s all speculation until there is a good test.
Did ford have any documents on the subject of why they added them?
Maybe T’s just over heated regardless and the pans just because an nuisance?
Did they continue into the Model A years?

Bryant

Numerous early autos came with dust shields as they called by period literature, or known as engine aprons or engine pans as Ford named the parts. Engine pans are listed in the engine #s parts and price listing, so they are part of the engine.

Use was to keep excess road dust, dirt, mud, rain, out of the starter, generator, or carb hot air inlet.

Or to resist the heavy splashes to the engine when fording also.



Personally, the Ford engine looks bare if you lift the hood and see empty space to the pavement

Engine pans were used on the Model A, and many others, even Buick to the 1940s.


No pans, a "naked engine" and bare looking.



Engine Pans in place, very best Henry Ford would like!

Ford did not make and install the engine pans just to give the hired help something to do. Both pans and hood louvers serve to manage air flow, and as late as 1926, Ford improved the T cooling system by raising the fan height. A thermosyphon system circulates coolant by taking advantage of the different density of hot and cold coolant. Enhancing the radiator's heat rejection capacity improves the coolant circulation under higher engine load or higher ambient temperature conditions.

The bottom one looks like a late 24 - 26

The hole lines up to the carb drain. The top one is a fitz both ( nh or vaporizer ) repop? or factory. The second one is for a vaporizer Only?
There were a few variations. If I recall correctly there is an early version(14ish)) that has an oval indented pan under the carb with a small drain hole. & then theres the early (13ish) transmission pans (not commonly seen as many got pitched)
It would be nice to show all the variations tied to correct years.

When I found the photo of the 3 that I posted I thought over time there would have been a post or timeline of the pans that had more than what I posted. There might have been one somewhere but I didn’t find it. Others might know more of the subject. Maybe the Rodda parts Identification books have something about it.

Maybe the T judging guidelines have a correct list of pans for T’s. My cars aren’t show cars and are about 95% correct so I haven’t thought a lot about it. But I can see during the T era and after why a lot of T’s that were worked on didn’t get them back on and the pans were pitched to the side.

Differences
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Note dates for Engine Pan in Ford parts manual (December 1925)
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The vendor provided pictures are not complete, but instructive anyway. The vaporizer pan is not shown.
There would be a pan with the drain hole more forward OR a second forward hole.

I always thought engine pans were introduced in 1917 when Ford discontinued flat fenders so there’d be a place to sit your beer while torqueing head bolts or changing spark plugs…..

Here’s the carburetor side engine pan I’ve had since the 70’s when I bought a garage full of T parts. This pan has the round bowl pressed into it whereas the reproduction ones from Lang’s don’t and the one from a Ford parts book isn’t round or has the oval. The repos doesn’t have the round bowl pressed in the because of the cost of the press die and etc. I’m assuming.

This looks like the on that R. Bingham posted to begin with.

This seems to at least in a way from the post I found that even back then there wasn’t a a concise shape exactly for the different year T’s. I guess sheet metal makers that Ford used made the parts a little different like the body makers did. They were real close but not quite.

Curiosity got me to browse through all the parts books to see differences in engine pans. It appears that there are 5 variations.
Not sure how accurate parts books are
1. 1910 - 1911
2. 1912 - 1914
3. 1915 - 1917 --
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4. 1918 - 1924 --
5. 1925 - 1927