Valve pins regularly fail

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Budreau
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Valve pins regularly fail

Post by Budreau » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:40 pm

My Tudor engine was rebuilt about eight years ago to include a valve job. It runs great. At least once every couple years (approx 1,000 miles) a valve pin goes missing causing my T to run rough. Upon inspection, I find that the valve, spring, and spring seats are in good condition, but I'm missing a pin.

The biggest pain is trying to track down the missing pin in my engine. Sometimes I am lucky to find the pin near the valve, this time not so much :/

To reduce this occurrence in the future, should I install different springs? I want to keep my T as stock as possible, but should I use more modern valves?

Any insights are appreciated. Thanks.
Chad
[b][size=130]Chad Budreau[/size][/b]
1923/24 Tudor | 1915 Speedster | 1924 Depot Hack | 1925 Touring

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Mark Gregush
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Re: Valve pins regularly fail

Post by Mark Gregush » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:48 pm

Are they breaking or just falling out? Unless you have the wrong valve retainers they should not be coming out. The pin is up in a recess domed area.
https://www.modeltford.com/item/3056.aspx
or the wrong springs are installed and allowing float because of too little tension on the retainer.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

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Humblej
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Re: Valve pins regularly fail

Post by Humblej » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:51 pm

I am done with pins. Chevy valves with chevy keepers.


SurfCityGene
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Re: Valve pins regularly fail

Post by SurfCityGene » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:22 pm

The best trouble free valve keeper system is the chevy type like Humblej posted!

During this years Montana 500 race the pin or keeper washer failed on two different occasions and cost racers the possibly winning the race. This same thing has happened during 4 different races that I know about in the past. Once to the car that I was driving.

I under stand wanting to keep the Model T like Henry made it but IMHO there is no need to use the pin type valves when a far superior system is readily available which will not be visible and offer many more trouble free miles.
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John.Zibell
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Re: Valve pins regularly fail

Post by John.Zibell » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:05 pm

The Chevy system is non infallible. I had a keeper fall out on a tour. As noted a T doesn't run well on 3 cylinders.
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Re: Valve pins regularly fail

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:20 pm

...rebuilt about eight years ago...

Several years ago there were forum posts about the new pins wearing out, and some people said they used only original pins for that reason. I was under the impression that the current pins are being made hard enough, but maybe you got hold of some of the quick-wear variety. Are yours falling out because they're worn, or because the springs are weak?
The inevitable often happens.
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Budreau
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Re: Valve pins regularly fail

Post by Budreau » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:41 pm

I do recall reading about bad pins during the era we rebuilt my engine. One pin broke in half, the others seem to rattle loose.
[b][size=130]Chad Budreau[/size][/b]
1923/24 Tudor | 1915 Speedster | 1924 Depot Hack | 1925 Touring


wayne sheldon
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Re: Valve pins regularly fail

Post by wayne sheldon » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:51 pm

I usually use the original pin system. However have run the Chevy type valves and keepers on a few cars. The engine in my '15 runabout has not been run yet, but has Jeep/Chrysler valves and keepers in it. Only because I didn't have and couldn't afford to buy good one-piece valves made for the T, and I had the valves and keepers out of a Grand Cherokee that blew a piston.

I can't say I haven't had problems with the pins for the original system. But the problems haven't been bad enough to make me use always new types. I have had and used what I think were original Ford pins, but most engines I have reworked the pins were worn enough to not be used. I usually use nails, a close fit, loose enough to struggle into place with long-nose pliers, but as close to tight as that allows for maximum strength and wear considerations. I cut to appropriate length.

Hardness DOES matter! Usually, the nails work quite well. Usually they hold, stay, and wear well. However, one engine many years ago, the nails were too hard. After about a thousand miles, one broke and fell out (pieces recovered). I made a new pin and continued enjoying the car. A few hundred miles later, another one broke, fixed and continued on, but carried a couple extra pins in my nuts-n-bolts can. Then a third one broke, into three pieces. When I looked close, two others were broken into two pieces, but still hanging into the valve stem (they broke in the middle inside the stem and the length I gave them still held them in place). After that, I replaced them all, and made sure I did not use the same nails as before. Drove the car for several years after that with no more valve pin troubles.


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Re: Valve pins regularly fail

Post by Nv Bob » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:24 pm

Most use to soft or old pins that appear usable

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