Magneto coil ring differences

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AndreFordT
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Magneto coil ring differences

Post by AndreFordT » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:31 am

I was reassembling a 1925 engine with a 4 dip oil pan. It was hard to put a few bolts in it but in a way I get them all in and tide.
Tried to turn the motor but it didn't turn any more. Looking for the reason I found that the oil pan was touching the coil ring and that the coil ring blocked the magnets on the flywheel.

Disassembled it and saw a mark in the oil pan. But why??

After looking at a few other coil rings I found that there is a difference in the cast iron frames at the lower part where the ring is free in the oil pan.

I will not disassemble the engine but will grind off the cast iron till the oil pan and coil ring will fit.

Andre
Belgium
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Kerry
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Re: Magneto coil ring differences

Post by Kerry » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:23 am

I wouldn't blame the coil ring, more so the oil pan. Looks like at some time in it's life the T has had a front end nudge pushing the ball mount back some. Mount the pan back into your T frame and see how it all lines up.


Allan
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Re: Magneto coil ring differences

Post by Allan » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:38 am

Frank has the same thought as I do. Front end damage can lead to the ball mounting on the pan being pushed back, even more likely on the 4 dip pans where the mounting face is more vertical . I presume the parts you are trying to assemble are from different sources. If they are from one previously assembled unit, I am at a loss to explain it.

Allan from down under.

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AndreFordT
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Re: Magneto coil ring differences

Post by AndreFordT » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:50 am

I only build a new coil ring for the engine and used an other cast iron frame.

I don't think the reason is the oil pan. Changed it with an other 4 dip one and had the same problem.
I measured the high-level of the original coil ring and compare it with a few (8) others I have here to be rebuild .
One was on the same level, for most of the rings they are 4mm higher one is 6mm higher.

Took an angle grinder and cut of about 4mm, now the ring clears the oil pan.

Andre
Belgium


Adam
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Re: Magneto coil ring differences

Post by Adam » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:40 am

YES! THE REASON IS THE OIL PAN! The car has been in a front end crash in its lifetime that drastically deformed the pan.

You really need to replace the pan with a good one, or have yours restored by someone who can properly re-align everything. This is usually more expensive than a good used pan.

Fix it properly now, or you are very likely to pay the price later with other alignment issues, potentially catastrophic engine and transmission issues, and/or a broken crankshaft.

This is a serious issue and that pan should not be used!


R.V.Anderson
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Re: Magneto coil ring differences

Post by R.V.Anderson » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:32 am

All of these responses about the oil pan are right on. The slope of the flywheel pocket allows the field coil to clear until it's pulled down by the bolts, thereby springing the field coil into the magnets. Remember there is very little clearance between the magnet clamps and the pole faces, so it doesn't take much of a bend in the pan pocket to make this happen.

My experience has been that it's next to impossible to fix, though it can probably be done. But you will have a lot of time invested so it's cheaper in the long run to do as all these posters say and just get a new pan.

This is one area that the KRW pan jig can't check for trouble. If I had a pan, I'd make an attachment to do so. Probably electrical, with a light or maybe a buzzer, so that if the pocket is pushed in beyond tolerance it would light up or sound off when the bent area touches it. It would be easy to do.


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Re: Magneto coil ring differences

Post by Altair » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:03 pm

DSC02420.JPG
This is off a 26 there is a slight difference maybe a different supplier. Yours appears to have a slight wrinkle in the lower left corner maybe just enough to distort it. The clearances are very close so it doesn't take much.

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AndreFordT
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Re: Magneto coil ring differences

Post by AndreFordT » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:34 pm

Thanks all,

You were all right about the pan.
I set the pan back on the engine and tried to set the transmission bearing in. The pan is 8mm out to the top. Will try an other one tomorrow


Andre
Belgium


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Re: Magneto coil ring differences

Post by Adam » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:32 pm

Altair, The pan in your picture is a ‘12-‘16 “3 dip” pan.


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Re: Magneto coil ring differences

Post by Allan » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:29 pm

Well spotted Adam. Clearly it is a 3 dip pan. Also clear are the usual cracks due to that style of pan having no rolled outer edge to strengthen it. Clearly it has 3 rivet pan mountings, so you 13-16 time frame is what I would expect.

Allan from down under.

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AndreFordT
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Re: Magneto coil ring differences

Post by AndreFordT » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:14 am

Just a photos of the misalignement of the pan.

Hard to understand why it is that way. The car was in a musea and didn't run. No crash to see.
Took the engine apart for an overhaul as well as the front and rear axle.

First problem: The motor had a crack between the water inlet and the water plug on the other side.
Changed the block by a better?? one and set new pistons and rings, regulate the bearings, means end rods.
Rebuild the flywheel with new brass bolts and cleaned it all.

Second problem: After rebuilding the flywheel, I recharged the magnets. There for I used the original good looking magneto coil ring and three 12V batteries. During that the coil loop start to smoke, there was a short in one of the coils. Result: need to rebuild the coil ring. For this I took a nearly done one of the shelf I started rebuilding sometime ago, finished the rebuild.

Third problem: Set the oil pan on the engine and found the pan touching the coil ring. Comparing the rebuild coil ring with the original one that came out of the engine and found the rebuild one 4mm higher where the pan was touching (was the original one grind off?? I found, between the others I have, one having the same high as the original.) Took an angle grinder and cut the rebuild one to the same high as the original. The oil pan cleared the coil ring and I put the transmission cover on the pan.
This done, I tried to set the fourth bearing on the end of the engine and found the misalignement of the pan. See photo.

Need an other oil pan. I have the one of the other engine I already used the block. Will this work??

I wonder what will be next?? It is frustrating to work that way.

Regards

Andre
Belgium
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John kuehn
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Re: Magneto coil ring differences

Post by John kuehn » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:51 am

Very informative post about oil pan issues. That very could be an issue in more than few T’s that people have had problems with. It doesn’t take take much of a hit in the front end to push the pan in at that point. I doubt people look that close to check that area. Especially when looking at a dirty and greasy pans at a swap meet.
Still even with the pan lined up on a pan jig a slight an inward bump at that point wouldn’t be a factor in lining up a pan.
Something to think about for sure.
This post makes me want to check my four extra pans that I saved!

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AndreFordT
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Re: Magneto coil ring differences

Post by AndreFordT » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:34 am

Just get an other oil pan ready.
This time I tried the alignement before the definitive assembly.

The end bearing just slide on and the bolts went in by hand.
I think I am back on the road.

What will be next???????

Andre
Belgium
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