Inner Tubes

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Original Smith
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Inner Tubes

Post by Original Smith » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:40 pm

What brand of inner tube is the best quality available today? I've heard Hartford is the best, but I don't wish to waste my money either.
I know Bob's sells them. What about any one else?

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Ruxstel24 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:56 pm

I got a couple Hartford from Coker.
Definitely thicker rubber than the "other" brand.

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:04 pm

Hartford tubes are OK. I have them currently in the 1915 runabout. Coker and other dealers sell them too. I'm avoiding Custom Classics, as there was a run of them prone to splitting. I patched one seven times before I realized what was happening. I won't buy any more of those until I'm pretty sure none of the bad ones are left in the supply chain. I haven't heard of anybody having trouble with the Hartfords.
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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by SurfCityGene » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:42 pm

Larry, Just go over to Lucas and the ones I recently bought from him looked and felt very nice. I bought 4 new ones and we put them on the Montana 500 racer for this years race and they have been performing very good so far. They're only $15 bucks instead of lots more for others!
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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Alan Long » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:50 am

Inner Tubes is a hot subject for me. I agree with other statements the Hartford are currently the best new Tubes
but still not a patch (no pun intended) on the originals. Even Hartford’s drop pressure where as older stock / used Tubes
from years back don’t drop 1 psi

As a very large group of people why can’t we use our strength in numbers and demand Tubes that are “Fit for purpose”
and manufactured to the same specifications as the originals. Material wall thickness as original plus 100% Butyl
should just about cure the issues we have with splitting and leaking at unacceptable levels. Attention to the
Vulcanisation process with the stem also needs improvement. Tubes are a very critical part of a safety issue and currently
I’m very conscious that at any time they will fail when driving my 1910 with the 30 x 3 1/2

I have also heard of the Michelin brand being used in the UK however they are a very close metric size to our inch dimensions.
Looking forward to other posts on the subject. Alan


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Allan » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:03 am

Now you guys know why I was really pleased to have been given two old Olympic butyl tubes recently. They hold air!
If you fellows buy tubes from Lucas and they DON'T hold air, what recourse have you? Clearly, they do not perform the function they were made for, so are unfit for sale.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:39 am

I NEED a bunch of inner tubes! Everything I have bought in the past fifteen years has been JUNK! Whether I paid nearly $40 for them, or just a hair over $15, they leak, the vulcanized seams split, and the new patches DO NOT stick and hold pressure above about 30 psi! As broke as I am, I would rather pay $50 for good tubes like the few I have left from forty or more years ago.

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:52 am

Wayne, I would buy one Hartford tube (about $22) and try it. If it turns out OK you can get more.
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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by art32mor » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:09 pm

Both harford what ever lucas sells are goid tubes most blame a tube but its tire maibrenance and hiw one mounts them add to the tube life

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:57 pm

Both harford what ever lucas sells are goid tubes

Only partly true. I don't know how many, but some of the Custom Classic tubes sold by Lucas have or had the splitting problem. That is a defect in the tube. It has nothing to do with mounting or maintenance. VOE.
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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by SurfCityGene » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:36 am

Not sure how long ago all you guys got your Lucas tubes that were so bad but the 4 I got back before Fathers Day looked great, very heavy, solidly made and have not leaked any air!

At 15 Bucks they seemed like a steal! I guess YMMV?
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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:15 am

Not sure how long ago all you guys got your Lucas tubes...

Not sure exactly how long it's been, but I bought the split-prone Custom Classics over a year ago. By now there may not be any of them still in stock.
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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by FATMAN » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:07 am

I have Hartford tubes in stock, Bob


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Adam » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:11 am

I wonder how many of the people with “tube problems” are not using rim flaps???

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by TWrenn » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:25 pm

Adam, I for one have never used flaps. I just "line" my rims inside with Gorilla tape. So here comes another hot-bud issue!! :x
Seriously though, I believe most tube "deflating" issues are a result of the cheap-ass STEM VALVES more than the tube itself. Some just don't seem to keep the air in. That said, I do think the Hartford tube structure is about the best at this time. They are definitely heavier material.


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Mel King » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:02 pm

What about EEC tubes? They seem to be pretty thick rubber. MEL.


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Mel King » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:03 pm

What about EEC tubes? They seem to be pretty thick rubber. MEL.

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by TWrenn » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:24 pm

Mel...re EEC tubes...yes, if you can find them

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:48 pm

I believe most tube "deflating" issues are a result of the cheap-ass STEM VALVES...

Don't depend on the valves.
IMG_2286.JPG
Help them out with small caps that have a rubber seal inside.


"What about EEC tubes?"
I have one. Where did I get it? :)
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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Alan Long » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:53 am

It seems that we have common ground on this subject so, all we need now is a Data Sheet developed that specifies
what we require in our Tubes.

Ie Material used.
Wall thickness / density
Ribbing Yes/ no
Valve stem material
Vulcanisation or original style Nut and Plate
Pressure testing
Factory Batch Certificate / Warranty / letter of conformity.

Can you all give me your input please and I’ll start the ball rolling.

As mentioned previously, I gladly pay a premium to have the comfort of knowledge that it’s only
a roofing nail or like that will give me a flat Tyre and not a inferior Tube...

Alan


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Allan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:41 am

Adam, no flaps in any of my 7 T's. Just rubber rim liners. No problems yet. When Anthony broke the crankshaft in my roadtser buckboard in 2010 it was parked in the back of my workshop on its old set of worn out Olympic tyres. One has gone 1/2 flat so far.

The tubes we are being obliged to purchase today are not up to the task. The suppliers should be demanding better quality items. It would seem the Hartford brand may be a step in the right direction. If enough customers complain long enough abut shoddy merchandise, the vendors will get the message. Look what happened to the junk 4 piece lined cast iron brake shoes that took hours of fettling to get them to fit. We now have one piece bolt on items that fit.

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by D Stroud » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:32 am

I for the life of me cannot understand why rim "liners" are used on clincher rims. "Flaps" can be useful when mounting the tires, helps to prevent pinching the tube, been there, done that :( ). They also can help keep the tube from "squeezing" in between the beads of the modern clincher tires. The tube should never contact the rim, if it does, something "ain't" right. Liners are for the spoked and split rims to keep the tube from contacting the ends of the spokes or the split in the rim. This has been hashed out on here over and over, it ain't rocket surgery. (to paraphrase Steve :) ). I guess I'm missing something. JMHO Dave
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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:52 am

This has been hashed out on here over and over...

Yes. But you can point out to some people that galvanizing and zinc plating are one and the same, that Kelsey and Hayes were two separate companies, and that the possessive its has no apostrophe. You can repeat the information many times, and those folks will still say something like, "I'm working on a Model T. I want to get some Kelsey-Hayes rims for it's wheels. Should I have them zinc plated, or galvanized? :D
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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Original Smith » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:49 am

Please don't assume the photo that Steve Jelf posted is correct for a Model T, it is not. I'm not saying it doesn't work. As you can see it does, but why would you want to screw the dust cap all the way down those threads, when you can just attach it to the rim nut and be done. Two issues ago, I wrote an article for the Model T Times explaning what is correct for a Model T. Apparently few have read it.

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:23 pm

If my scanner was working I'd show you a picture of the correct rim nut from Larry's piece in the MTT. You can see it on page 25 in the May/June issue. I'm using the Schrader 724 and 725 stems, and the incorrect rim washer that goes with them, because that's what was readily available among the stems I happened to have, and the dust covers I was given fit them. Eventually I may switch to the correct 777 stems and the hardware that fits them, but for now I have bigger fish to fry. I may be using the wrong ones and suffering the ordeal of screwing the covers off and on for a long time. :)

The point of my photo above was not the stem and rim washer, but the cap to help the valve hold air.
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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Original Smith » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:50 pm

That cap will not help the valve hold air. Give it a try some time!

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:50 pm

Give it a try some time!

OK.

IMG_3413 copy.JPG
Here's a tube with the valve removed, and the cap with its little rubber seal inside holding air. Your move. :D
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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Erik Johnson » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:56 pm

In their advertising, Schrader promoted the use of the metal caps with the rubber gaskets to completely seal the stem.

First photo is of brand-new Schrader brand metal caps with the rubber gasket inside. These should not be confused with plastic caps that merely keep the dust and dirt out but do not provide an air tight seal.
Attachments
schrader 2.jpg
schrader caps.jpg


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Allan » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:47 pm

David, you are missing something. If you have a set of 5 rim flaps in T tyres, on current prices, without shipping, you are missing $140. I have better things to do with that kind of money. At current conversion rates, with shipping, with taxes and with the local dealers markup, and with postage to get them to me, I would be out around AU$400. That's why I use rim liners, cut from old inner tubes for free, with complete success.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Chris Haynes » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:25 pm

Someone out there is making dummy Schrader valve stems for Harley-Davidson motorcycles. They screw onto the metal valve stems. They look 100% real. I was wondering why someone hasn't made them for Model T's?


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by D Stroud » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:12 am

Allan, I'm not talking about the expense or lack of for flaps or liners. I'm saying I don't understand what you are gaining by using liners on clincher rims. I have also mounted clinchers not using flaps and not pinched a tube, it just makes it easier. Flaps are a bit spendy, but once you have them they can be used over and over. Just curious. Dave
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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Allan » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:29 pm

Dave, the rubber rim liner serves to protect the tube from any irregularities in the rim, e.g. rust flakes. By cutting the tubes to 2.5" wide, the beads on the tyres also capture the liner, making the bead fit somewhat tighter at the rim edges. When using tyre lube at fitting time, it also makes it easier to get the tyre to seat in the beads on the rim. Other than isolating the tube from potential rim damage, these 'benefits' may be marginal, but at no cost, why not? One last benefit, a liner cut from a 13" inner tube is a stretch fit on a T rim. When it snaps in place it stays there, and is not disturbed when the tyre is levered on. It also adds minimal weight compared to flaps, thus reducing potential wheel balance problems.

Works for me.
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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Daniel828 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:44 pm

Is this the splitting issue you guys are talking about on the custom classic tunes?
1A80CD7A-0A00-4301-8DC0-ED211993375E.jpeg


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Daniel828 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:46 pm

Sorry for the bad pic. I can take another with better light if need be.
These tubes are mounted on wire wheels. I thought at first the edge of the rim strip was causing the problem, so I removed the rim strip as a test and the tube continues to develope these pock marks Its only affecting one wheel so far. All the wheels have the same tubes in them
Thanks
Dan

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:10 pm

Is this the splitting issue you guys are talking about...?

Could be. Both patches appear to be on a line that could have been a fold.
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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Allan » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:43 am

Daniel, those are miniscule patches. Are they from a bicycle repair kit? I like to see the patches with a greater footprint to avoid the chance of leakage.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Daniel828 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:24 pm

Alan, good eye. They are in fact bicycle tube patches lol. It’s all I had . I keep getting these pin holes I can see them developing the inner circumference of the tube. They are right in line with the he edge of the rim strip. I was thinking maybe the edge of the strip was digging into the tube and causing these pin holes But I removed the strip for a test and the holes are still developing. I bought another tube so I’ll I have to use that one

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by RichardG » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:19 pm

HEY Fellas, IVE been seeing bikes zooming by the shop with huge tires on them, the tires look big enough to be close to 30/3's in size, would this be a supply of inner tubes? no kidding, I''m going to try and stop one of them to check the size tire there useing, TWAS A SUPER DAY, MY KUZ BOB AND I WOKE A 25 T TRUCK UP, been setting 12 years, the owner restored it and became too sick to finish his work, the cab was lost but all the rest is there, could not get the starter to do its job and engine was too stiff to use the arm strong, so we hooked up his kaboda, and a long rope, me setting on the gas tank ---now im 81-- im thinking there is a first for every thing--what in helk do i do if this thing starts, pull the spark down---push the throttle up =yank the brake lever back-- try to get my right leg that has a new knee to bend far enough to use the brake. and let kuz know its running. 50 years ago this would have been fun, as TEDDY--said there is nothing to fear but fear it self, well let me tell you I was afeard, don't know how many of you ever sat on a t gas tank that's level with the pedal's and your 6 foot three and nothing to lean back on, and did i mention my belt size is 53 inch, WELL--I must have looked like some one swatting a hive of bees, for a second or two , however things went off very good ,sparky rattled to life with very little hesatation, and three big kids me the oldest others late 70's are going to sleep good tonite. a supe fun day..


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Allan » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:09 am

Richard, even if you find the motorcycle tubes are large enough for a T, the valve stems will likely be too short to get an air chuck on because of the depth of the felloe on a T wheel. Some folks tried it here years ago, and the cost of a proper machined brass valve extension meant that it was cheaper to buy a proper tube in the first place. Besides which, motor cycle 23" wheels on the front of trail bikes were too narrow and the tubes were to small in cross section.
But, I'll bet they hold air, unlike the rubbish T tubes we are offered.

Allan from down under.

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:39 am

...the valve stems will likely be too short...

Not if you cut them off and install metal stems. The determining questions for me would be: Do they fit? What's the price? If they fit and cost less than the car tubes, I'd try one and see how it performs.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Ruxstel24 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:33 pm

I'm not aware of any MC with 23" wheels, 21" is the biggest I've seen. I would be concerned about the pressure they can handle. Bikes don't generally run 50-60 psi. I don't think my 16" front tube on my H-D is as thick as the Hartford tubes either.


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Allan » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:31 pm

Dave, my brother-in-law still has the 500cc Honda single trailbike he bought in the late 70's/early 80's. It has a 23" front wheel and 18" rear. That was the go about then. Modern bikes may well not be built with 23" wheels.
Steve's fix for the short valve stem issue may not work too well. The m/c tubes I have replaced are thinner than car tubes. They do hold air though! This may mean there is little rubber for the replacement stem to squish for a good seal.

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Ruxstel24 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:54 pm

Allan, I guess I forgot they make other motorcycles that aren't Harley Davidson... :lol:

Seems like old trials bikes had a big front tire.
I stand by my statement of thickness.

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by RichardG » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:48 pm

ALLEN, you would think with all the need for a good tube those making them would produce a product that would hold up under today's demands, every thing to make this product is in place--is it the material that's holding them back ? what would a good rubber tube cost to day, I bet there are many that would pay what ever the cost, [here is where i get myself in the hole]., why cant one make a threaded brass tube that screws in where the valve stem lives to extend the short stem to where its where its usable, and with today's sealer or with a threaded sleeve, after the tube is in the tire to lock every thing in place, boy talk about out side the box, [ CMON]--- HOW MANY TIMES WAS HENRY CONFRONTED WITH THINGS LIKE THIS--and look what they came up with 100 years ago.


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by bronzebeetle » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:08 pm

I enjoyed reading all comments about tubes and proper mounting and must agree we are fortunate to keep air in the tubes produced in past years and even now. The only recommendation I'll add to this discussion is buy whatever rubber tube you can get at any cost as soon as possible. The best rubber has come from a very few rain forests on Earth and this resource is quickly and sadly being destroyed by humanity.


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Allan » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:45 am

Richard, valve extensions are already made. Good quality ones are machined brass. They have an inbuilt plunger which depresses the valve core just like the air chuck does. They are often used on trucks and odd-ball machinery to give access to the valve stem on duals etc. The problem is they are not cheap. There were some cheap plastic ones around one time but they were less than satisfactory.
One T owner I knew had fitted 2.50 x 23 motor cycle tubes and had the short valve stem problem. He bought just one extension, and used to screw it on and off as he checked each tyre on his T.

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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by RichardG » Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:57 am

ALLAN, I THINK THIS IS SWELL, SPEAKING WITH SOMEONE 1/2 WAY ROUND THE WORLD-- IVE REPLACED THE TIRES ON MY MOTOR-CYCLE --,THEY ARE MUCH HEAVY'R THAN CAR TIRES, THIS MY BE WHY THE TUBE IS THINNER,--BUT IF The tube is MADE OF REAL RUBBER AND CAN DO OVER 100 MPH. WHY WONT THEY STAND UP?--sorry don't mean to be yelling..--problem in today's world , there are to many of the same thing being made, and just enough differant so they wont work. we all have been driven in to a box canyon ,use what is shoved at you or go with out!--here's a solution--fill them with foam,--the guy net door did this to his lawn mower, because it is too old to buy tires for. you may have to remove a leaf or two from the springs to ease the ride, but at least you wont have flats any more. i think its a crime with as many tees and antique automobiles in this world the replacement parts should be the best that can be made.NO--WE SEND TO OTHER COUNTRY,S THAT DON'T CARE--what our needs are, makeum cheep--charge big bucks..wounder if there is any safety standards on this junque!! ENOUGH SAID.THANK YOU ALLAN, ITS BEEN FUN. GREG.


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Re: Inner Tubes

Post by Original Smith » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:30 am

30 X 3 1/2 tubes were still being made in the United States when I was restoring my car in 2006. What happened? I still can't believe members of this forum still don't know the difference between a rim liner and a flap!

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