Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

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Rodger Erickson
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Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Rodger Erickson » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:32 pm

Obviously there's no hard-and-fast rule, but approximately when did Ford switch from the "early" 1913 front fenders to the "late" ones?
Which style would be more correct for a car with a May casting date?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Rodger E.


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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:25 pm

I hope to see a definitive answer to your question! Just because such details interest me. I know the early '13s used a sort-of crossover fender with the rib-less skirt (inner panel) like the '12 had, but with the bead across the rear slope to reduce vibration which leads to cracking in various corners. The '12s had a "hat bill" on the front. I am not sure about the early '13 fenders, but I don't think they had the bill.
Exactly when they changed to the more common '13 fender I can only speculate. However, I have only seen a few original early '13 fenders, and rarely see photos showing them (of course, the angle of most fenders will not show that detail in most pictures). Given the scarcity of the early variation, I suspect the change to the common '13 fender was made fairly early in the '13 model year, possibly by the end of the '12 calendar year.
I would think a May of '13 car would have had the common '13 fender. However, if you have a viable option for the early variation? And want to? Why not. They could be an interesting conversation piece in the tour parking lots, and an opportunity to educate others on the "all cars built alike" model T.

As always, others that have better information than my memory, are encouraged to offer corrections.


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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by otrcman » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:03 pm

Rodger,

You could put an early fender on one side, and a late fender on the other side. Most people wouldn't notice, but for the few sharp-eyed types you could explain that you are pretty sure your car was built on changeover day and everybody knows just how frugal Henry Ford was.

Hey, Model T's are supposed to be fun, aren't they ?

Dick


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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Rodger Erickson » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:14 pm

Sadly I don't have any leads on original fenders that are salvageable, so I will be going with Rootlieb fenders. Their catalog has both early and late fenders... it would be interesting to know how many they sell of each type.


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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by autoneer » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:21 pm

I have an early 13 Touring built in Dec of 1912, probably in Detroit, but sold and/or assembled in Canada. It has American engine serial # 181,4XX, with matching Large data plate, which says Walkersville Ont. on the bottom. Ford did not begin manufacturing in Canada till May of 13, beginning with engine # C-1. I am the 3rd owner from new, and the speedo says 3200+ miles, which looking at the pedals etc, I believe is real. The front fenders have none of the above mentioned beads, and no bill, BUT they do have an extra rectangular rib around the outside edge of all 4 fenders, much the same as a 1910 REO Model R. IF that's a Canadian feature, the only other one is the addition of a Left Hand door on the Fischer built body. This one was sold in Montreal, so its L.H. drive, and even has no holes in the frame rail for the R.H. steering to mount. It also has a few leftover 1912 features, Ford script trans cover, no Made in USA on the head (but it is on the block) that goofy long taillight bracket, and a few other bits. The Rands windshield is equal dimension on top & bottom halves. Otherwise its identical to its American cousins, and still has its factory leather upholstery. I am putting a top kit on it now, the old one did not survive the last tour, and probably was not original, but it was at least 90 years old.. Jeff Beaumont, Gardnerville, NV


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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by nsbrassnut » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:02 pm

Hi Jeff

I'm envious of your '13 Canadian T.

Canadian Fords from I think even pre T had their fenders made in Canada by local shops. A good tinsmith could make them and it avoided the import duty. The extra bead on the outside of the fenders confirms that they are Canadian. The used the extra bead until sometime in mid 14 when it was dropped and the Canadian fenders became essentially the same as the US ones.

Jeff
Nova Scotia

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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Bob McDaniel » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:34 pm

641953.jpg
Jan. 1913 build date. No rib across fender like later styles had but I don't have a picture to post of it. I posted all of my pictures on the old forum here http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/641256.html and should repost them sometime so people can blow them up full size and see more detail.
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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by GEmering » Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:54 am

Late - July build '13 Touring.

Gene
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1913 t 4.jpg
1913 t 4.jpg (57.13 KiB) Viewed 1810 times
1913 T 2 (2).jpg
1913 T 2 (2).jpg (43.71 KiB) Viewed 1810 times
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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Original Smith » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:37 am

The early '13 fenders don't have a bill, but the lip does stick out in front like a '12. It just doesn't hang down. It's the same distance all the way around the top of the fender as the rest of the lip. I suppose I could take some pictures, but I'm lazy!

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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Darren J Wallace » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:41 am

My early Canadian '13, built in I think Sept. or Oct. 1912 has double beaded, billed front fenders. Engine number C872
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IMG_5720.JPG
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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Ed Fuller » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:56 pm

My Touring has been in my family since the 1950’s and is a very well preserved and mostly original car. It has a serial number from the first week in June 1913 and has a ‘14 style body with early ‘13 front fenders. I am confident the fenders are original to the car. It has many other mixed ‘13 & ‘14 features as well.


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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:02 pm

Ed F, Sounds like your car was built on cleanup day? Not a bad thing, and actually I think more common than many model T people would like to believe. Many years ago, there was an early '20s T discussed at great length that had a known low mileage and no damage history back to when new. Everything on the car was correct for '21 or '22, except the front axle and wishbone. It had an earlier style over-axle wishbone and perches. I knew a couple people that personally knew the car and owner. They were convinced the car left the factory that way. I have heard and seen several other such stories.
1913 was a major transition year. Ford was switching from the old methods of manufacturing to the largest assembly line the world had ever seen (at that time). Practices and assembly logistics were changing almost daily. Parts were being stashed all over the place, and finding their way back into assembly weeks and sometimes months later. It would not surprise me in the least if a late '13 ('14 style body) were found with true '12 style fenders on it.
I do not know all the details, but I know there were at least four significantly different 1913 model fenders. Original era photographs sometimes show two styles of front fenders on one car.

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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Ed Fuller » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:29 pm

Wayne,

I have always thought it was a “clean up day” car or built with “left overs”. It is interesting finding mix of all of the ‘13 and ‘14 features. I always refer to it as a very late ‘13. I know some die hard purests will call it a ‘14.

The fenders have no bill on the front an no reinforcement rib across the rear part.
0BD8FB6D-271D-43DE-867C-D03FDA3606DF.jpeg
7EF379A6-A4E5-452E-9661-B1D07391D5F8.jpeg


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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:11 am

Beautiful car, Ed F, simply beautiful!
Have you ever looked for blue paint hidden in dark corners? Just curious.


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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Drkbp » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:42 am

Ed,

Beautiful car!
I have one of those "1913's" with a 1914 style body. I suspect yours is a Beaudette body touring.? ;) There will be a "B" on the kick panel if it is a Beaudette.
They also have the bead along the lower edge of the rear tub.

Apparently, the 1914 style touring car began to appear during June of 1913 because of the problems with the 1913 style touring bodies. I believe Beaudette may have been the first body supplier to furnish the new stronger "1914 style" touring body. Just a guess, but interested in what body manufacturer your touring is.

Both styles must have been produced beginning some time in June 1913, through the end of September 1913, on the same assembly line. Only difference is what style touring body was dropped on the chassis.
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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by TWrenn » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:19 pm

My April '13 does not have that "bead" across the front fenders. I suspect those appeared very late in the model year as it morphed into the '14s?

Also I am the proud owner of a "cleanup" '25/'26 Fordor..at first I was a bit apprehensive about it but the more I work on it and look at it the "cooler" it is!! Indeed these so-called "transitional", "cleanup", "mop-up" cars, whatever one wants to call them probably should be considered as being a bit rare for one thing as well as just plain unique! And a great conversation piece!


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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Original Smith » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:16 pm

Rootlieb has no idea what an early '13 fender looks like. They told me they would be happy to make them to my specifications. I have two originals in my back yard that would have been to expensive to restore. I had two CORRECT front fenders that Otis Clinton made for me 40 years ago, so I used them. If I had more time and money, I would take one of them to Rootlieb just for the hell of it, and have them make me a pair. Part of the problem is that Tom is no longer active in the business, and I don't believe some of his employees are as dedicated as he was.

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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Ed Fuller » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:12 pm

Yes, mine has a Beaudette body.


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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Michael Paul » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:57 pm

Hi, I think I may have a complete set of the early 13 fenders, that are new but made years ago. I'll take some pictures and post.
Mike


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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Michael Paul » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:14 pm

IMG_20190818_190202933_HDR-1632x918.jpg


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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Michael Paul » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:17 pm

IMG_20190818_190153270_HDR.jpg
Rears


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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by Michael Paul » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:19 pm

The fronts don't have a bill on them.


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Re: Early vs. Late 1913 Fenders

Post by autoneer » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:57 pm

Someone mentioned earlier that their 13 did not have a bead at the bottom of the rear panel, I looked at my 13 Canadian touring with an all original Fischer body, and it sure does! It still has the factory leather, so it hasn't been changed. Maybe its a Canada thing?
Best
Jeff

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