1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

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Michael Davis
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1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Michael Davis » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:18 pm

I purchased a 27 engine which is suppose to have a model A crank. What is the best way to tell if it an A crank??

Thanks Mike

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Ed Baudoux
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Ed Baudoux » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:23 pm

I would drop the inspection cover at the bottom of the pan and peek inside.
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Les Schubert
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Les Schubert » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:28 pm

A good first clue, the pan should have 4 dents out on each side in line with the connecting rods just below the block skirt. The extra stroke and bigger bearings needs the extra space


Henry K. Lee
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:01 pm

The dimples Les is speaking of are at the top section of the oil pan going down. In this photo you can see right at the bottom of the silver frame rail. You may need to zoom in a little.

Hope this Helps.

Hank

DSC00367.jpg

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Andyclary
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Andyclary » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:30 pm

Easiest clue is the threaded hole in the snout of the crank.

Andy


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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Kevin Pharis » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:25 pm

Here’s a pic of pan dimples. Will usually have a 3/8” - 1/2” thick spacer between the pan and dipper tray also
0FF55385-C2E3-4A4A-961E-6E286BEB91E0.jpeg


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Michael Davis
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Michael Davis » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:01 pm

Thanks every for all the information. I guess I have a hopped up looking 27 engine. No model A crank.

Thanks again Mike
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RajoRacer
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by RajoRacer » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:24 pm

Andy makes a valid & easy observation - what's so "hopped up" about it ???


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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Henry K. Lee » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:27 pm

Sure do not see any dimples! Just saying.

All the Best,

Hank


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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Henry K. Lee » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:27 pm

Or spacer for the lower inspection cover.


Les Schubert
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Les Schubert » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:25 pm

Steve
With those “SPIFFY” aluminum side covers it is OBVIOUSLY hopped up!!
Uh huh.


Les Schubert
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Les Schubert » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:26 pm

I wonder if it might have a 28 Chevy crank? I know people have done them (not me).

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George N Lake Ozark
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by George N Lake Ozark » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:11 pm

You aren’t going to know unless you drop the crankcase inspection cover. Take so pics and show us what you got


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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Thomas-Jull » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:59 pm

I have heard about the pan dimples from many people. However, the engine that I purchased that had an A crank installed already didn’t hit the side of the pan. The rods were ground to clear the cam and the inspection cover at the rear did need to be bent and the rear cover horseshoe is now 3 pieces rather than 2. The inspection cover definitely needed the spacer plate. Still wonder why the crank cleared the side of the pan.


Thomas-Jull
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Thomas-Jull » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:00 pm

I have heard about the pan dimples from many people. However, the engine that I purchased that had an A crank installed already didn’t hit the side of the pan. The rods were ground to clear the cam and the inspection cover at the rear did need to be bent and the rear cover horseshoe is now 3 pieces rather than 2. The inspection cover definitely needed the spacer plate. Still wonder why the crank cleared the side of the pan.


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Michael Davis
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Michael Davis » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:33 pm

Time to pull pan cover and take pictures.


Kevin Pharis
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Kevin Pharis » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:58 pm

Your first pic shows the threaded hole in the crank snout... definitely a model A crank. The finned aluminum inspection cover is made to clear the A crank and rods... no spacer required. A crank may have been ground down to T rod and main journals... wouldn’t need dimples then


Kevin Pharis
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Kevin Pharis » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:53 pm

The pan dimples are usually required as the rod nuts tend to hit the pan. If you look closely at my pic above, you will see that I use 12 point aircraft nuts on my A rods to minimize the size of the pan dimples. Never seen one that didn’t hit before. And I can’t imagine how much material you would have to grind off the rods to clear the pan without dimpling


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Michael Davis
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Michael Davis » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:19 pm

Thanks again for all the information.

PS I said hopped up LOOKING Does not mean it was hopped up. The picture i am posting is a HOPPED engine.

Mike
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Les Schubert
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Les Schubert » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:59 pm

I have done some measurements and I believe that if you use a 13 or older pan they are just wide enough that possibly the 12 point nuts that Kevin mentions will clear. I will be exploring this soon as I acquired a 13 pan that had the back gone. So I welded it to a later 3 dip pan. I have installed a A crank into a 13 block and hopefully this winter will button it all up!!

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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by BobD » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:25 pm

Michael Davis wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:19 pm
PS I said hopped up LOOKING Does not mean it was hopped up. The picture i am posting is a HOPPED engine.
Never seen a hopped Franklin before. 1929?


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Michael Davis
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Michael Davis » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:16 pm

29 130 sedan. Daily driver
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Michael Davis
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Michael Davis » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:51 pm

I pulled the head and pan cover, Crank is threaded. Engine is bored 120 over measured 3.865. Pictures of crank below.

Thanks for looking and all information .

Mike
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Michael Davis
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Michael Davis » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:55 pm

more pictures
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Les Schubert
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Les Schubert » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:38 pm

Very interesting engine, different than I would do it (but that doesn’t make it wrong)!
Pressure mains, but dipper rods
The mains use T caps. I figure 1-7/16” is the maximum safe diameter there.
Are the rods A? Must be considering the dippers.
Interesting
Thank you for the pictures


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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Kevin Pharis » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:08 pm

Model A rods for sure, and they look full length. That means it’ll have the high wristpin Jahns pistons in it. Pistons are really good for top end oiling! ;) Valves look oversize, and there must be a VW pump on the back of the cam


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Michael Davis
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Michael Davis » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:24 pm

Thanks for your replies. Now I know what it is. I will be posting it for sale soon.

Thanks again
Mike


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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Henry K. Lee » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:31 pm

Thanks Michael for posting, first for me without dimples. We learn something new every day if we keep our minds, eyes, and ears open. Very unique.

All the Best,

Hank


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Michael Davis
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Re: 1927 Engine with Model A crank ??

Post by Michael Davis » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:27 pm

Thanks Hank

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