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Touring Car id?

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:21 am
by mywheels
Hello all. This is what I assume to be a 3 door touring car body. It has a metal firewall. I acquired a lot of Model T parts and this is the last mostly complete (?) body in the lot. To be honest, I will be selling this one at some point. Yes, it looks like a train wreck! It's sad to see.
-I would like to identify which parts in the lot belong to this car, and if there's anything on the car that doesn't belong, besides the pasture moss. These parts have been sitting a long time!
-What year do you think this car was built?
-Does the door laying on the ground belong to this car?
-Do the fenders and running boards pictured belong to this car?

I would love to find all the pieces in my parts pile that belong to this car. The new owner is going to need them more than me!

Re: Touring Car id?

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:25 am
by mywheels
More pictures.

Re: Touring Car id?

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:26 am
by mywheels
Fenders and running boards in question.

Re: Touring Car id?

Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:21 am
by Wayne Sheldon
Not all one car. Most of the front section is a higher/wider firewall (like the '26 TT truck), not like the '23 runabout. That firewall, coupled with a few details of the front section of the body make it a 1924 or '25. The only two years that the T cars used that style firewall. TT trucks used the same firewall on most '26s and '27s as well.
The rear section of the body, also sometimes referred to as the "rear tub", is what is known as a "five piece" or "five panel" rear touring section. Note how each side has a common middle rear piece, a small corner piece, and a slightly larger side piece up to the rear door. Total rear section of five pieces. The minor but important detail also is notice how the top of the rear sheet metal is folded to a 90 degrees narrow strip of the body sheet metal that goes around the rear seat. That was used to attach a wooden "tack rail" around the outside of the seat to tack the upholstery and top onto. That style of body panel was used from the mid '10s, actually in late 1913 although the front of the body was quite different! It was last used in early 1921 while both that earlier style and the newer style were used for a short while. The 1921 and later style used only three panels in the rear tub, a middle panel, and two side panels that had the corner incorporated into them. They also had the tack rail replaced by a slightly larger piece of wood that went around the inside of the seat sheet metal with enough extra to tack upholstery and top onto. There are also differences in how the top hardware is attached.
So, the front and rear sections of the body do not belong together. It is possible to make a single body out of mismatched pieces like this. I have seen it done. But it is not correct, and usually doesn't come out right.
Also, the door laying on the ground? Is not a front door. It is a right rear touring car door.
Pretty rough, but some good pieces in there.

The fenders and side shields I cannot see the front edge well enough to be sure which era they are. The '24/'25 front fenders have a lower lip on the front to blend into the radiator splash apron used those two years. Fenders with no lower lip in front are basically the same from 1917 until late '23.

Re: Touring Car id?

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:47 am
by mywheels
Wayne, thank you! If I understand correctly, the front half is 1924-25, and the back half is late 1913 through early 1921. I'll seperate the parts according to their year.

-Does the front seat go with either of the 2 bodies?

Here's a picture of the front of the previously mentioned fender.
I think I might have the frame, fenders, and splash shields for the 1913+ car. It had a wood firewall at one point.

Interesting. There's so much to learn!

Re: Touring Car id?

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:45 am
by Wayne Sheldon
The rear section would not be as early as '13 to '16 likely. I am not sure when the seat riser and back would have been changed, but I would expect it to be correct for somewhere about '18 to early '21. The style of the sheet metal could be adapted to a body as early as July of 1913, by changing the seat structure inside. Even then, it would not be exactly correct. There were a number of other small changes, like the door hinges were located about a half inch different and the screw pattern on the hinges also changed in 1915.
Oh, the minutia of model Ts! I like to often comment that the model T Ford is the ultimate icon of mass production! Fifteen million cars, all built alike. No TWO exactly alike.
Okay, that IS a bit of a stretch, but you get the point.