MTFCA Forum

Anyone have a set of Leon Parker’s wood plan sets lying around? There is NO old wood in my current project, I know the body mounting wood is available, but I also know there’s wood in and around the door frames, seats and so on...I’m bookmarking every forum post I can find with at least a picture or so..

You may already know but Fordwood has a picture of the wood for 26-27 Roadsters on their website. Not a lot to go on but it gives you an idea.
Maybe one day copies of Leon Parker’s T plans will be made available to buy. That will up to his family of course.

Most if not all of Leon's plans were actually Mel Miller plans and were copyrighted. To this, you might wish to see Russ Furstnow's reply on this thread (last reply prior to closure of the thread): http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1207884220

I agree completely with Russ, I also believe that most enthusiast forums are made up mostly of folks who share things without remuneration.

I bought a set of 1919 Roadster plans from Mel Miller many years ago when he was selling them. I later sold them to a guy in Canada years later who had advertised he needed a set. I sold them to him for an agreed upon price. I believe Fordwood and the wood products company in North Carolina must use plans to make the wood kits they sell. I guess they use plans they drew up themselves or they bought from somewhere.
For a while Millers family were selling his plans after he died so the story goes. But that’s another story.

I am an architect and have been contemplating drawing plans for rewooding our cars. I would not be copying Mel’s plans but would be compiling information from forum members as necessary. I have rewooded a 24 Touring but no other cars. I also own a 25 Roadster that has no upholstery in place but it’s not original wood. I would do it for the challenge and the love of the hobby so they would be free to all those that need them and would be in pdf so no shipping cost. However, I in no way wish to undermine Mel’s estate. Can anyone confirm for 100% certainty that his plans are no longer available? I would also like to hear from others about their concerns about me doing this.

Thomas

Thomas

Yours would be ambitious project, as so many bodies for the T, concentrating on the common open and closed cars would take quite a while. Doing this for free is nice, but costs will be involved in developing all the pieces, marked in dimensions, and accompanied with notes for construction details.

Mel and Leon developed stylized drawings, which when produced are protected under copyright laws by the holder. Most times, copyrights are better protected by registration and paying future fees to maintain. One would guess copyright passed with the holder, unless registered and in another's name. I recall years ago, Mel's drawings were sold by his daughter, but don't think they are still available. Lots of costs to duplicate and actually low demand to keep a full inventory of full-sized costly prints. Don't believe Leon's have been available, but could be wrong.

However, the T wood plans are just that, an individuals work. Having both Mel and Leon prints, have found Leon's to provide better descriptions and are more useful.


Leon:

Mel:

So, doing your own work would not impinge on former drawings, as these plans are stylized renderings, using patterns or info by the artist.

Since you are thinking of offering on-line for free would give you freedom from any future plans of Mel's or Leon's original works being marketed by their respective family members. These works would be different.

Many may pay for printed large scale plans rather than email sketch in small format, so you would not IMO be undermining earlier works.

Ford rendering of wood in touring car:

Rob, there is not much to the wood in the improved roadster, and none of it is visable after upholstered, so plans or patterns may not be all that necessary. Seat back and tack strips, no structural frame like the earlier T's.

Isn’t there a small piece in the door hinge pillar as well? What does this piece do?,a stiffener?, a trim attachment piece?

Yes. That strip of shaped wood is placed inside edge of hinge pillar, its there for tacking the cardboard kick panel vertical surface.


Note the tacks holding the worn cardboard, they are put in that wood piece.

The rest of the wood is fairly easy for the 26-27, like this one:

Revisiting this as my Fordwood just came in. Thanks Dan! Your last picture is a big help showing the seat back ledge that the wood crossmember sits on for the vertical slats to fasten to! Is there another horizontal piece at the top that the slats fasten to, or do they just bolt/screw into the top rail tack strip?
Also, the kit came with a long board that supposedly goes into the bottom seat frame support, anyone have a picture of where/how this fastens in?
[image][/image]

I might have answered one of my questions by finding THIS picture of a wood vendors offering. I see it shows a “seat upper” board marked. It also helpfully shows predrilled holes so I can maybe discern fastening locations. Still need to see/find out where the “seat bottom board” and “seat side” boards go!

That front seat board fits into the seat frame, and use stove bolts to fasten, with square nuts, washers, or lock washers. These types of stove bolts are used to place the wood in the body. Some use wood screws, like the upright wood at the hinge pillar. The round head of the single slot wood screw to the metal.



This is a '26-'27 pieces together touring, using some of the new metal pieces, they are formed different from Ford original, so you have to adapt wood pieces. On this front seat board (supports the bare spring seat cushion in the center- the rest of the seat spring rides on metal framing. You bolt that seat board to the frame, upright position as shown in photo.

(Note photo is a touring, so no wood for the back rest, just a metal bar to give the back rest metal structure). The runabout uses wood verticals to support the back rest, both the wood horizontal wood strip at the top and the 3 joining upright wood back support pieces are bolted with flathead stove bolts (longer ones) thru each and also thru the wood tacking strips that go around the upper tub. Use flat head stove bolts , with the heads counter sunk into the wood tack strips, so the upholstery and top cover lay flat. Nuts are exposed on the interior wood slats but cut the bolt shanks flush, so limited exposure, the backrest spring covers them anyway.

The 'seat side' pieces are shown at the base of the hip panel, that wood is placed there, so you can tack the upholstery. Most of the wood in the '26-'27 open cars is for tacks to hold the upholstery, only a few pieces are support reasons.

An original Ford seat base has 'reinforced ' mounting but the board goes the same way in, up right.


Backrest of runabout. ( on this one I added a '4th' backrest wood support, cause just to do it , but Ford used just 3 wood pieces. And, just because, didn't place the upper horizontial wood under the supports, just bolted them to the tack strip that I made of oak, figuring there was enough backrest strength anyway for the back rest spring.

Perfect! I can’t thank you enough! The pictures are great. I thought that was how the seat bottom board went in, but now know it still needs some fitting to sit within the seat frame and on the subframe. Looks like your touring has some patch repairs as well, mine are extensive and the bucket of rust I started with is looking like a car at this point. Back out to the shop and a bunch of “fitting” tries to get it all back together!
Thanks again!

Rob

Glad to help out, pictures do help when all is missing.

Yes, my '26/'27 Touring was indeed a basket case...or rather a ditch case... as this body was found in a ravine in south GA.

Took many new Howell pieces and some hammer work, the right front cowl support was already welded in wrong a long time ago, and most of the rusted door hinges on the passenger side were just cut off with a torch!

But, ole Dixie was together enough to be put back on the road, and now our favorite tour T.

Reassembly of my 27 Roadster has restarted after a long time on "pause".
The kit from Fordwood includes "door catch tack strips" which will only fit in place if I remove the seat side upholstery support/brace. That's the part that has a horizontal support going along the side of the seat and forms a small "U" shaped channel around the front and top edges of the seat side upholstery panel. This car did not have the door catch tack strips when I disassembled it, but it was an older restoration and not everything was original (especially the upholstery) so I have my doubts about if they should have been there.
I just read on Leon's wood plans that "Some bodies do not use the door catch tack strips". I am now assuming that this is the case on my car. I still have yet to install the Classtique interior - I hope the tack strips will not be necessary with this kit.

Leon's plans also have a note which I just spotted today, stating that a hardwood piece measuring 1 1/4" x 2 3/4" x 42" is to be mounted under the steel brace running across the body beneath the turtle deck. Can anyone verify if this piece really helps out in any way? I suppose it may cut down on body vibration?

Eric

You are correct on that: I just read on Leon's wood plans that "Some bodies do not use the door catch tack strips". I am now assuming that this is the case on my car. I still have yet to install the Classtique interior - I hope the tack strips will not be necessary with this kit.

Your '27 wouldn't have the door latch side wood vertical, that was on earlier bodies. The U shape channel is replacement for tacks, as the hip pad will slip into the channel, you have to take care to have the channel open enough to receive the hip pad cardboard vinyl covered pad. Then slip it in and maybe crimp some for retention at a spot or two.

Confirm your kit from Classtique has the hip pads are cardboard with vinyl cover, should have sewn edge that will go into the channel.


Photo of late '27 (no buttons in the upholstery) touring, but runabout front hip pad is the same, note how it fits into the channel without any tacks placed thru the pad. The door cardboard does use 'tacks', but they are flat head ringed nails going into grip sockets mounted in the door panel.
Earlier body or maybe missing the channel for the hip pad, note tacks, as wood has been placed there for holding the tacks, not shown are tacks that run vertical down the door latch side.

Thanks for the input Dan. Yes, the Classtique hip pads fit right into the channel, so there will be no need for the door catch tack strips.

I have also found there is no need for the triangular wood pieces (Fordwood ref 670 and 671) to hold the upper edge of the kick panel on my car. There is a tang cut out of the cowl support bent in towards the passenger compartment for this function. I had actually bent the tang straight out to try to hold the triangular wood piece in place (insert face palm here). My car does not have the wood piece under the trunk floor (inside the beam running over the muffler in the picture). The specified thickness of 1 1/4" would contact the left frame rail but not quite contact the right frame rail on my car.
-Is this piece supposed to contact the frame rails?
-What is the reason for having this wood piece under the steel beam?
There are five #10 screw sized holes evenly spaced along the beam and two 7/16" holes at the outer ends. Maybe the wood piece is fixed by 5 wood screws or perhaps two stove bolts? There's not much wood in the improved car, but there's enough to keep throwing me off the trail as I reassemble this Roadster.

Guess haven't seen wood inside the metal crosspiece. Seems wood there may get cooked by the muffler

The runabout should have a metal floor too, with pieces for the battery door, and a hump plate over the rear spring crossmember. Original wood body blocks are still in place in this photo of early 26 body (Nov. '25 production).




Click on photo to enlarge

Dan, you're right about the exhaust heat being intense for a wood piece to be just above the muffler. My car's trunk floor has been plywood for the past 60 years and given the shipping cost and import duty to Spain, it's going to remain that way for some time. Fortunately the exhaust heat hasn't done any injustice to it.

If you haven't seen this piece on any improved cars then maybe it was a one-off that Leon based his findings on. If I don't get any more responses I'll create a new posting for this issue.

Thanks for your help!