Don't get me started/starter woes

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Autie
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:27 am
First Name: Keith
Last Name: Keller
Location: Fowlerville, MI

Don't get me started/starter woes

Post by Autie » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:10 pm

I rebuilt the starter, new field coil/brushes, front/rear bushing. The bendix assembly/spring is newer (about a year old but only used for about a month) w/no issues and worked flawlessly before the starter rebuild. I installed the rebuilt starter and it would spin w/o the bendix engaging. I took the bendix cover off, took the bendix off and inspected it. Everything checked OK and the bendix slides onto the shaft easily and turns freely in the mounting bracket bushing. I re-installed the bendix w/the cover off and watched it and same thing, the starter shaft spins but the bendix does not engage. I then took my finger and spun the gear that spins forward to engage the flywheel and moved it closer to the flywheel. I then attempted to start the motor and the gear spun and engaged the flywheel ring gear and stopped as if the starter did not have enough torque to rotate the engine. I back it out from the flywheel, tried to start the engine once again and no bendix again, just spinning. Even though this is still a 6 volt system, I tried a 12 volt battery at two quick intervals to see if it would turn the engine over. It barley turned the engine over and only if I manually moved the bendix gear forward a little. Being cold out I thought maybe oil was too cold (5W-30) so I took a heat lamp and placed it under the engine for a couple hours and also jacked up the rear wheels off the ground. Still the same results. The engine hasn't been started in a year and a half, so then I thought it might be sticking clutch plates. It wouldn't start by crank although it sure did kick back multiple times and seemed very stiff and is why I suspected the plates. I decided to tow start it and it started up. I let it warm up for apprx 5 min. I tinkered w/timing and cab adjustment and it stalled. I tried the starter again and it just spun again w/o the bendix engaging. I could not try the tow start again due to a mechanical issue of the tow vehicle ("when it rains, it pours"). Never had these issues prior to rebuild. I was thinking the about the pole distance and it was right at 2.83. If too close to the armature, would this cause low torque? Sorry for being so long in details but figure it might help solve what is going on. UUUUGGGHHHH! Any advice/help is much needed and definitely appreciated. I have a parade coming up at the end of Nov and trying to get this resolved before the snow starts blowing.


J1MGOLDEN
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:39 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Golden
Location: Bowie, MD
MTFCA Number: 14294
MTFCI Number: 13562

Re: Don't get me started/starter woes

Post by J1MGOLDEN » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:42 am

The earlier new manufactured Bendix assemblies had a slight problem with the grooves not being cut quite deep enough all the way to the end.

That caused the gear to slam back hard enough to lock, so it would jam and each new Bendix was good for one start, until removed and freed up again.

An easy fix was to use a small point on a Dremel tool to grind the grooves just a little farther and wider at the end area.

Then the new Bendix will continue to work fine.

A note on this problem was posted several years ago by me, and may still be available in an early Forum.


Jerry VanOoteghem
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:06 pm
First Name: Jerry
Last Name: VanOoteghem
Location: S.E. Michigan

Re: Don't get me started/starter woes

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:06 pm

".... it sure did kick back multiple times ...."

Aside from any starter troubles, fix this first! Even if your stater engaged perfectly, it'll be ruined again when the engine kicks back on it.


Ignoring the bendix itself, how easily does the starter motor shaft turn by hand? An engine kicking back against the starter will bend the starter shaft and sometimes bend the starter housing/support arm as well. With old, worn bushings there may have been enough excess clearance to accommodate the bend and misalignment. However, since you installed new bushings, any such distortion can now bind things up enough to drag your starter down. Also, did you finish ream the new bushings after pressing them in?


Topic author
Autie
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:27 am
First Name: Keith
Last Name: Keller
Location: Fowlerville, MI

Re: Don't get me started/starter woes

Post by Autie » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:50 pm

Thank you for the replies. #1. The bendix IS an older repop and was made w/ such tight tolerance it isn't allowing the gear to spin forward and if it did would stay in the forward position. I checked an old original bendix and what a difference. Problem #2. I talked to the Man, the Myth...THE Legend, Mr Joe Bell and he advised that the brand new battery cable purchased at a local auto parts store was the issue that was causing the starter to not function properly. Not thick enough gauge. Mr. Golden, you were spot on w/bendix issue. Mr. Van Ooeghem, yes, the bushings were finished reamed. Thank you both for your valuable input. I will be placing an order through Langs next week and hopefully Mr bell will have a good original bendix for me!


Jerry VanOoteghem
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:06 pm
First Name: Jerry
Last Name: VanOoteghem
Location: S.E. Michigan

Re: Don't get me started/starter woes

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:05 pm

Keith,

Thanks for the update! It helps us all when we read, "the rest of the story". Glad that you're on the right track.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic