Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
RGould1910
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:16 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Gould
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 touring, 1912 roadster , 1927 roadster
Location: Folsom, CA

Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by RGould1910 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:55 pm

The lining on my rear brakes is too close to the hub inner surface. The lining may have been replaced many years ago when the car was first restored. Its not a brake rod adjustment issue. Because of the tight fit, there is not enough throw in the handbrake lever to set and release the clutch properly. The best adjustment I could make would have the brakes start to grab as soon as the clutch is in neutral and then the lever does not go all the way forward to fully engage high gear when released.
I recall installing drum brakes in a Datsun truck years ago and the shoes had to be arced because they were too tight in the drums. Can that be done on a 26-27 rear brake drum with what appears to be a softer lining? Any thoughts are appreciated.


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6431
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:59 pm

post pix of linings and brake cam
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured


Topic author
RGould1910
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:16 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Gould
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 touring, 1912 roadster , 1927 roadster
Location: Folsom, CA

Re: Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by RGould1910 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:21 pm

Brake cam is new from Langs
20191101_151737.jpg
Attachments
20191101_151731.jpg


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6431
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:23 pm

Richard

if you have the patience for my inquiry, a straight on shot of the assembly would be easier to digest. Thanks.
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured


art32mor
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:21 pm
First Name: Art
Last Name: Morra
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24T Touring
Location: PA
MTFCI Number: 14286

Re: Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by art32mor » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:34 pm

Looking at the rivit holes i would say linings are to thick


Topic author
RGould1910
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:16 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Gould
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 touring, 1912 roadster , 1927 roadster
Location: Folsom, CA

Re: Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by RGould1910 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:43 pm

Here is a straight on pic. Art I also think the linings are too thick. Any way to correct this short of installing new lining? If I were to install new lining I wonder if I would run in to the same problem. ???
Apologize for the pic angle. Dont know what causes that
20191101_153718.jpg


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6431
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:08 pm

OK, a couple of comments and you can do what you will with them:

maybe an optical illusion but looks like lining is thinner on the "bottom" than the "top". Could you have reversed them from their previous positions?
bottom leading edge of lining looks loose and can be enough to drag
lining looks correct thickness, compare to this which worked fine:
26-27 brake.jpg
Your brake cam looks like it will energise brakes immediately upon rotation. Take a look at an original which has much more roll-off and would allow a bit of rotation before energising:
26-27 brakes.jpg
26-27 brakes.jpg (72.88 KiB) Viewed 5384 times
and finally, you may well be dragging on the edge of the brakes if the drums are going onto the axles too far

good luck
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured

User avatar

RajoRacer
Posts: 4308
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Tomaso
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
Location: Longbranch, WA
MTFCA Number: 14972
MTFCI Number: 15411
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by RajoRacer » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:17 pm

Are those original Ford shoes ? There was an issue with the thickness of area where the cam rides on the repros a while back - don't recall if it was remedied.

User avatar

Henry K. Lee
Posts: 5339
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
First Name: Henry
Last Name: Lee
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
Location: South Pittsburg, TN
MTFCA Number: 479
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by Henry K. Lee » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:18 pm

Good catch Scott, I concur!

Hank


Topic author
RGould1910
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:16 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Gould
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 touring, 1912 roadster , 1927 roadster
Location: Folsom, CA

Re: Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by RGould1910 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:09 pm

Informative and thoughtful observations. Thank you all.


Allan
Posts: 5201
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by Allan » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:24 am

Richard, it is a bit hard to see what is going on with the shoes in place on the backing plate. Can you take them off and put them in the drum, with a spacer the width of the cam? That will show you what you are dealing with. You do need a little clearance, to allow the cam to rotate a little as it transitions from the high gear, clutch engaged position, to clutch disengaged in neutral, and then to application of the handbrake.

Allan from down under.


Shane Lach
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:36 pm
First Name: Shane
Last Name: Lach
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Tudor and 1921 speedster in progress
Location: Milford, NH

Re: Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by Shane Lach » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:35 am

I had this issue as well. I ground down the brake shoe where the rides until I got a satisfactory fit.


Topic author
RGould1910
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:16 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Gould
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 touring, 1912 roadster , 1927 roadster
Location: Folsom, CA

Re: Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by RGould1910 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:19 am

Update. I filed down the ends of the lining on a taper from the two rivets to the ends by the cam and ground off the overhang on the side seen in the photos. After readjusting the rods, the fit is better. There is a narrow range of motion on the handbrake in the neutral position before the brakes engage but the clutch fully compresses when the handbrake is released. The car is drivable and the action should improve when on the road. Thanks again for all the information.


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6431
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:32 pm

Richard

it was very nice of you to follow with an update and is nice that you're back on the road. I agree that more (desireable) slack will develop with more driving. Good for you.
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured

User avatar

kmatt
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:30 pm
First Name: Kevin
Last Name: Matthiesen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Coupe, 1921 speedster, 1925 TT, 1916 Exp
Location: Madera California
MTFCA Number: 11598

Re: Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by kmatt » Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:15 am

Richard: If you need a little more hand brake lever travel to go from T neutral only, to rear 1926 brakes and T neutral, you could try using two slider type clevis on the brake rods, replacing the stock clevis on each side.


Topic author
RGould1910
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:16 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Gould
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 touring, 1912 roadster , 1927 roadster
Location: Folsom, CA

Re: Question re rear brakes, 26-27

Post by RGould1910 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 6:46 pm

Great suggestion Kevin. I see Langs sells them but they are pricey at $62.75 apiece. Someone must have a patent on them. I don't see any others doing an internet search. I'll drive the car some and see if the short neutral range is a problem. The issue is my novice girlfriend wants to drive the car. A LOT.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic