1911 open valve engine build
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Topic author - Posts: 49
- Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:55 am
- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Barlow
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 touring, 1911 under construction
- Location: Murrieta California
1911 open valve engine build
when i started looking for parts for the open valve block i just bought, i dont find any of the original type parts for the valves, and valve guides.
the original valves have the octagone types spring retainers and the 9/16 adjusting nuts on the bottom of the valve, the guides are most likely original and are very worn. they push out of th block so they are easily replaceable if i can get new ones. i think everything is most likely original including the cast iron pistons.
does everyone install modern type valves and springs in the early engines?
i thought it would be better to keep the original type valve hardware as they are exposed.
i can probably have the new spring retainers and adusting nuts made but i dont know about the treaded end valves
the original valves have the octagone types spring retainers and the 9/16 adjusting nuts on the bottom of the valve, the guides are most likely original and are very worn. they push out of th block so they are easily replaceable if i can get new ones. i think everything is most likely original including the cast iron pistons.
does everyone install modern type valves and springs in the early engines?
i thought it would be better to keep the original type valve hardware as they are exposed.
i can probably have the new spring retainers and adusting nuts made but i dont know about the treaded end valves
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- Posts: 1297
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:42 pm
- First Name: Frank
- Last Name: van Ekeren
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 touring, 1916 pick-up, 1924 coupe, 1926 touring, 1927 touring
- Location: Rosedale Vic Australia
Re: 1911 open valve engine build
Can't say that I've come across what you have described, but then again I've only re-built 2 open valve blocks, used modern valves, vendors springs, caps, pins and adjustable push rods. replace the push rod guides with bronze ones, some times you can come across NOS cast ones on Ebay.
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- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: 1911 open valve engine build
Where there’s a will... there’s a way!
Modern valves are definitely tough material... but are not impossible to machine. Manley (and other brands too) valves can be ordered as “blanks”, with extra long stems. With a little patience, do what you need to do... and cut em off to the length you need em
Modern valves are definitely tough material... but are not impossible to machine. Manley (and other brands too) valves can be ordered as “blanks”, with extra long stems. With a little patience, do what you need to do... and cut em off to the length you need em
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- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
- First Name: Walter
- Last Name: Higgins
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Open Runabout
- Location: Realville, PA
- MTFCA Number: 396
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
- MTFCI Number: 153
Re: 1911 open valve engine build
Would you mind posting some photos? I also don't understand the retainers and adjusting nuts you have described.
I'm going through an open valve rebuild right now and wound up using the 3052M valve from Lang's. It uses the modern retainer, which isn't terribly obvious and is a solid design. The real advantage in this case was someone had hogged out the intake seats to a 30-degree face for some reason and the oversized head allowed for salvaging the seat without having to resort to cutting the block for replaceable seats (risky). Also, the stem is 0.030-over and allowed for saving the original guides.
I'm going through an open valve rebuild right now and wound up using the 3052M valve from Lang's. It uses the modern retainer, which isn't terribly obvious and is a solid design. The real advantage in this case was someone had hogged out the intake seats to a 30-degree face for some reason and the oversized head allowed for salvaging the seat without having to resort to cutting the block for replaceable seats (risky). Also, the stem is 0.030-over and allowed for saving the original guides.
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Topic author - Posts: 49
- Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:55 am
- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Barlow
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 touring, 1911 under construction
- Location: Murrieta California
Re: 1911 open valve engine build
these are pictures of the valve parts out of my 1911 engine
i removed the valve guides as the valves were really loose in the guides, the guides appear to be brass but could be bronze
the tappet guides are also removable but these are either iron or steel as a magnet will stick to them.
the valve guides and tappet guides would be easy to recreate.
the nuts at the bottom of the valves are worn on the bottom side but i would assume these to be hardened steel as the ride on the tappets.
the spring seats are also fairy easy to duplicate but i suppose these could be reused. the valves could clean they may be able to be reground and reinstalled but i would prefer to use new ones if i can find threaded replacements.
i know they can all be replaced with newer parts but i would like to rebuild it original except for the crank and pistons
i removed the valve guides as the valves were really loose in the guides, the guides appear to be brass but could be bronze
the tappet guides are also removable but these are either iron or steel as a magnet will stick to them.
the valve guides and tappet guides would be easy to recreate.
the nuts at the bottom of the valves are worn on the bottom side but i would assume these to be hardened steel as the ride on the tappets.
the spring seats are also fairy easy to duplicate but i suppose these could be reused. the valves could clean they may be able to be reground and reinstalled but i would prefer to use new ones if i can find threaded replacements.
i know they can all be replaced with newer parts but i would like to rebuild it original except for the crank and pistons
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- Posts: 1297
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:42 pm
- First Name: Frank
- Last Name: van Ekeren
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 touring, 1916 pick-up, 1924 coupe, 1926 touring, 1927 touring
- Location: Rosedale Vic Australia
Re: 1911 open valve engine build
Looks to be some ones creation, don't believe it to be an original Ford set up. You wouldn't want to re-use those valves anyway, they are 2 piece ones that are prone to break.
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- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
- First Name: Walter
- Last Name: Higgins
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Open Runabout
- Location: Realville, PA
- MTFCA Number: 396
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
- MTFCI Number: 153
Re: 1911 open valve engine build
A machine shop probably could have installed what's called a guide liner that would have been concentric with the seat. I probably would have left them in and gone that route if your wish is to get back down to standard. I'm not familiar with that threaded valve and hex retainer that you show.
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- Posts: 406
- Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:53 am
- First Name: Harold
- Last Name: Schwendeman
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 Roadster Pickup, '26 Touring, '27 Depot Hack, '23 Roadster
- Location: Seattle
- MTFCA Number: 0
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: 1911 open valve engine build
I'm wondering if those very "unique" and unusual valve train components might be found in one or more of the several Model T era "after-market" accessory and parts catalogs? Like Western Auto Stores accessory catalogs for example. Never seen anything like what's shown in the photos,....especially the octagonal valve spring retainers. It does make sense that, back in the day, someone would come out with a method of adjusting valve lash easier than grinding valve stems, or, the very labor intensive procedure to replace the original solid tappets with adjustable tappets. Great photos by the way,....thanks,.....harold
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Topic author - Posts: 49
- Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:55 am
- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Barlow
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 touring, 1911 under construction
- Location: Murrieta California
Re: 1911 open valve engine build
i never thought about the fact that they might be after market parts, thats an interesting thought. these are adjustable so maybe thats the answer
any more input is greaty appreciated
any more input is greaty appreciated
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- Posts: 406
- Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:53 am
- First Name: Harold
- Last Name: Schwendeman
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 Roadster Pickup, '26 Touring, '27 Depot Hack, '23 Roadster
- Location: Seattle
- MTFCA Number: 0
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: 1911 open valve engine build
.......ooops! Just noticed that the valve spring retainer is "hexagonal",....NOT octagonal! Oh well,....not all that important I guess. The main thing is,....they are normally perfectly round!