MTFCA Forum

I read many of the posts about identifying rims and felloes. What a lot of information. I need 4 new rims.
Here is what I found. I have 4 Hayes rims and one unmarked one. The rims have welded lugs with a ramp to index in notch of felloe.
The mounting holes of the lugs have been enlarged in places by probably a round file. At first I thought they were worn out from use,but I do not think so. I think they were filed to fit the rim.

The felloes are not marked that I can see. They have notches and valve stem collar to limit rotation -from the articles.

It is difficult to measure worn and altered parts,but I made centering plugs to see if the rim and felloe were different size.
I calculated that the felloe is about 1/8” bigger diameter than the rim lugs. Except for the holes in lugs the rims fit pretty well.

The wheels are nice and do not have much wear. The car is an early 24. I am not sure what wheels to look for.

Meant what rims to look for.

Look at the demountable rims again. You're going to find that ONE tab has an elongated hole and that is so that the thing can swing onto the felloe after the stem is inserted through. Some folks have even welded them up only to have to file them out again

Thanks that is good to know. I still need new rims as these are too rusted. Are Kelsey rims correct for the wheel with the valve stem coller?

John

I am not an expert on this subject, and on the rare occasions I must mix/match, I refer to what has been posted before...

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1434340728 take a look at Mark Strange's pictures of wheel/rim with a raised ring...I am thinking you have Hayes based on your description.

also on the same link, look at By Mark Strange - Hillsboro, MO on Friday, June 12, 2015 - 08:35 pm: you'll see the gap which leads to "square" feeling of wheels that I posted earlier.

I believe the felloe in your first photo is Hayes. The notches accommodate the lugs on Hayes rims.

Note how the Hayes lug extends almost to the center of the rim.

Hayes lug.

Thanks. the the rims are marked Hayes on the lugs. I was not sure if they were correct.

John

Well, there you go...your felloe picture is a Hayes felloe and you say "Hayes" is on the lugs of your rims...you have matched sets. Now you need to seek out rims that are compatible with your known felloes.

When you say the rims are too rusty, show pix. What exactly does that mean? You might be absolutely right or you might be overreacting...

Rusty rims are one thing, but if the edge that folds over and holds the bead is sharp that is another thing. Show us what you have. If the edge is not too bad, they could be ground back to a better profile and should work fine.

One rim is ok and has good edge. One rim has lugs that do not lock in the fellow, different style. Two have vey sharp edges and pitting. I have not inspected the spare,but it is a Hayes also. I found three good used rims today,so I am all set. Thanks for all your help . This is a very good forum.

John

When it comes to finishing rims you have three choices. The most authentic is to have them galvanized as original. Another is powder coating. The third, which a lot of people do, is to shoot them with a rattle can of Oklahoma chrome (aluminum paint).

Galvanizing is best.

Mark,here is a picture.

Steve A friend told me there was cadmium color paint,but I have not looked into it. Those are pretty rims.

Cadmium appeared in the 30s and 40s as a plating for iron, so came too late for the T. Good old zinc was what was used as Steve says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium

John, quite apart from the finish for rims, the photo you posted shows a rim I would reject. The bead is heavily rust pitted and quite rough on the edges. Beginning T modellers without previous experience are often unaware of how a good rim looks and how much heavier a good one is.

Allan from down under.

Allan thanks for your advice. the picture was in response to mark. I would not use that rim.

Post by Mark Gregush » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:05 am

Rusty rims are one thing, but if the edge that folds over and holds the bead is sharp that is another thing. Show us what you have. If the edge is not too bad, they could be ground back to a better profile and should work fine

Thanks ,John

Ya that one looks to be eaten back quite a bit in the photo, them darn rust worms.

The comment that "One tab has an elongated hole so that it can swing onto the felloe..." has me a little stumped. I had a couple of rims with elongated holes in tabs that we welded up and re-drilled. I just pushed the bolts back into the felloe. When it came time to install I just squared up the rim, pushed the bolts back thru the felloe into the rim lugs, installed & tightened the nuts without problem.

The slightly elongated hole is the one by the valve stem

Once those bolts become one with the felloe, you cannot swing the rim off to liberate the stem from the felloe unless that hole is elongated. It's one thing to have new loose bolts on a restored rim and quite another when they are no longer separate items and have become a unit.

See: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/17 ... 1323379048 Allan Bennett on Wednesday, December 07, 2011 - 07:13 am

Ahhh.... makes sense. Fortunately my felloes and rims are in pretty good shape and the bolts easily removable. I just assumed the wear on the lugs was due to being slightly loose over many years of use.

Have you seen bolts so badly rusted in place that you'd risk damaging the felloe if you tried to knock them free? If so, how do you determine whether the wheel is safe for continued use?

That's just a stamped square hole. I've seen old wheels where the bolts were not about to come out and I've seen restored wheels that have had new bolts drawn in that would not easily come out. When on the road, it's nice to not worry about them falling out when changing a tire. It 's no different than having a wire wheel with pressed in lugs...they're part of the assembly...no risk

Not infrequently I have found the square under the head of the bolt has been upset a little to keep the wheel bolt captive in the felloe. Such bolts have to be driven out of the felloe to remove them. This may be something to do with loose lug rims used on our Canadian sourced cars.

Allan from down under.

Isn’t that cup around the valve stem for a Firestone rim? I see the “notches”like a Hayes. I think that fellow is a universal wheel, takes Firestone or Hayes rim. The Firestone wheelsI I have seen have do not have the notches.

If you will clean the inside of fellow around the cup, you may find a name there. Sometimes it is spaced along the wheel, but most times close to thr valve hole. Dan

Model T rims were zinc plated.

Dan Hatch wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:22 am

Isn’t that cup around the valve stem for a Firestone rim? I see the “notches”like a Hayes. I think that fellow is a universal wheel, takes Firestone or Hayes rim. The Firestone wheelsI I have seen have do not have the notches.

If you will clean the inside of fellow around the cup, you may find a name there. Sometimes it is spaced along the wheel, but most times close to thr valve hole. Dan

Here is a rim like one that was on the front wheel of car. I thought it might lock in to the cup,as it has no tab for the notches.
Unfortunately the extrusion on the rim is too short to catch the cup. At least I now have 4 Hayes rims that work fine. I could not find any name on felloe.

John

Picture

John, that small upset around the valve hole is to protect the valve stem. By adding to the thickness of the hole for the valve stem, there is less likelihood of damage to the stem. This is particularly welcome when using rubber stemmed tubes.

Allan from down under.

I wonder what keeps this rim from slipping on the felloe with braking?

John

I wonder what keeps this rim from slipping on the felloe with braking?

Four bolts.

Firestone type rims have a big tit to fit the cup. If I get time I will get some pictures of the NOS ones I have. It will also show the zinc plating. Dan

Steve ,Thanks for answering my question. I did not know if the 4 bolts were enough to hold the rim on with no other locking.
This will save me some work as my bolt only rims are in nice shape and one of my locking tab rims needs a lot of metal work. I will have several to choose from.

John

John, four bolts do hold the rim on the wheel, but that is only part of the story. The rims are designed to be jammed onto the felloe by the tension in the four rim bolts. It is this jamming of the rim which provides the binding between the two components that keeps the rims tight on the felloes, and on the rears, provides for the drive to be transmitted. Any combination of rims/felloes which relies on the four bolts only for the mounting and taking drive/braking forces is not the safest.

Allan from down under.