Newbie continuation

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wdado
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Newbie continuation

Post by wdado » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:15 am

I was able to upload my video of the transmission to youtube. Never did that before...hope you can get it.
This is in regard to my car being in gear all the time. Thanks. Try this link. It works for me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8pXwfM ... e=youtu.be


Norman Kling
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:32 am

When you tried to start the engine, what position was the parking brake lever? It should be all the way back with the rear wheels locked. In that position the transmission would be in neutral. You should be able to turn the crank or the starter and the engine would turn over. If it won't turn, try jacking up a rear wheel and put the parking brake half way between all the way forward and all the way back. That should put the transmission in neutral with the rear wheels unlocked. With one or preferably both rear wheels you should be able to start with crank or starter. The rear wheels will spin. Then push the brake pedal and the wheels should stop but the engine should keep on running. If it kills the engine when you push the brake, the clutch is stuck.
Norm


Norman Kling
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:33 am

I should have also said, Don't try to start with the plate off the transmission or you will get oil all over everywhere!
Norm


Scott_Conger
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by Scott_Conger » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:41 am

That's helpful.

Model T's don't have a true neutral due to the design of the high speed clutch. They are always going to drag for more reasons than you can fathom or want to know for the time being
Handbrake forward and you're now controling the car with the left (clutch pedal)...half way down is neutral...all the way down is low...foot off and it's in high (you get it that neutral is NOT with the clutch all the way down, right?)
Handbrake straight up (and high speed shaft's bolt JUST on the cam) is as close to neutral as you'll get
Handbrake pulled farther back until it stops is both neutral and parking brakes

Cars can get high speed clutch stuck after years of storage, but that is very much the exception and not the rule.

I suspect that you don't have a free neutral, combined with wear on the clutch lugs and old glommy oil in the clutch pack.

You really need another T guy to determine if it is dragging or truely stuck
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


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wdado
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by wdado » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:54 am

Further information. The engine will stop when the brake is applied. The hand lever is in neutral when this happens. I think I do understand the working of the pedals.
Stuck clutch?

Thanks to all of you.
Wally


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wdado
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by wdado » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:55 am

I will change the oil soon to see if that helps. 30 weight?


Scott_Conger
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by Scott_Conger » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:10 am

You're starting to convince me... :)

For purposes of breaking this thing free, I'd use a good quality 10W-30 oil. Myself, I use 15W-40 Rotella year round (but nothing's stuck).

Unfortunately, while showered with oil to some extent during running, the clutch is not bathed in oil, so you're more likely to break the thing free with proper mechanical persuasion than just changing oil and expecting it to "soak" loose.

I will end with same advice to find a T owner who knows what will break a T, and let him help you coerse this thing up to but not exceeding that point.
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!

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Bob McDaniel
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by Bob McDaniel » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:16 am

Hi Wally,

I just saw your video and it looks good so far but it looked like the low pedal might be a little tight, (hard to tell from video) How much travel do you have with the pedal when you push it down before it stops? Also 30 wt oil this time of year might not be the best choice. I have used 10w30 for years and it makes a big difference when its 30 outside. 30 wt made mine do what yours is doing now in cold weather and 10w30 made it do the same only less. IT may take 3 or 4 min of run time to warm up enough to free things up. My 09 will kill the engine if I step on the brake too soon when cold but when warm will stop the wheel and then can be let down and driven. I think you will get there soon.
Give an old car guy a barn and he won't throw anything away.

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CudaMan
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by CudaMan » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:35 am

Great video, good job!

I looked at it several times and it looks to me like your bands are working properly, but your high gear clutch is stuck.

What I see is when you pull the parking brake lever back, you can see the ring on the transmission shaft move to the rear, taking the load off of the three clutch fingers, but the fingers stay in their full forward position instead of following the ring. I would expect the fingers to move to the rear at least a little bit (they are not spring loaded against the ring, so they may not move much).

Just changing the oil can't hurt, but will probably not fix the problem by itselt. You might try putting in one quart of transmission fluid and top off the level with a good detergent oil, then chock the front wheels, jack the rear wheels up, and run the car in high gear to see if you can get the clutch freed up. Once it frees up, run it for a few minutes, going through each of the gear positions, then shut the car off, let the car down, then drain the oil/ATF mix and replace with 5W-30 or 10W-30 detergent oil.

I did a Google search on "freeing stuck clutch MTFCA" and got a lot of older threads on the subject:

https://www.google.com/search?q=freeing ... e&ie=UTF-8
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)

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Bob McDaniel
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by Bob McDaniel » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:09 pm

Watching the video again I do see where the high gear is sticking but it does move slowly so I feel it will free up with a little more heat and run time. I would apply the brake gently to not kill the engine but firm enough to bog it down some and then let off and repeat a few times. Idle it for a while and then try again. Warm oil will let go if that is what it is here.
Give an old car guy a barn and he won't throw anything away.


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wdado
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by wdado » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:37 pm

It's FREE!! Thanks to all of you (and the great conversation with Bob) The transmission now works like it is supposed to.

I ran it down my lane and then no fuel to the carb. Let it sit for a while then ran in reverse back to my barn after it started again (then ran out of fuel again).

Also have a bad water leak that looks to me like coming from the front of the block. Crack?

Looks like we are fixing some things and discovering others.

I realize it is going to be a slow process. Thanks to all of you again..

Wally

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Bob McDaniel
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by Bob McDaniel » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:20 pm

Good to know you got it going! Now you have all winter to work out the bugs and get it ready for tour season. When do we get to see a picture of the rest of the car?
Give an old car guy a barn and he won't throw anything away.


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wdado
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by wdado » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:38 pm

Here you go...
1109191330a.jpg

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CudaMan
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by CudaMan » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:49 pm

Regarding the "run a bit, then quits" issue, it's possible that the screen on the sediment bulb, or the fuel line to the carb, or the carb bowl needle and seat are getting clogged with rust or debris from the fuel tank. A quick way to confirm is to rig up a separate fuel supply from a gas can and rubber line and see if the car continues to run on the new fuel supply.

If you confirm rust in the tank, you can try cleaning it out and sealing it, but it's often just easier and more effective to buy a new tank and fuel line.

https://www.modeltford.com/item/2900TF.aspx
https://www.modeltford.com/item/2909.aspx
https://www.modeltford.com/item/2910.aspx
https://www.modeltford.com/item/2913N.aspx
https://www.modeltford.com/item/2902B.aspx
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)


Scott_Conger
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by Scott_Conger » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:43 pm

Bob

good of you to talk him through it. I didn't see it safely being done over the internet

Walter

welcome to the affliction!
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!

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Bob McDaniel
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by Bob McDaniel » Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:06 pm

Looks like a good start to a great car to me. Doesn't look like a neglected T from here! Even the seats look good. You plan to keep it and have fun? Lots of T's around this area and places to enjoy them and people willing to help and parts are easy to find for a 25.
Give an old car guy a barn and he won't throw anything away.


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wdado
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Re: Newbie continuation

Post by wdado » Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:23 pm

Just want to have a little fun on nice weekends.
The seats were done 30 years ago, but some mice chewed holes, one several inches in diameter.
I plan on taking my time getting it ready, but no desire to have a show car..just a decent driver.

Wally

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