Converting 1914 to Electric Start

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WorldChamp1914
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Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by WorldChamp1914 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:04 am

Hi......any suggestions?....my rear end car accident has wrecked my neck.....i need electric start now......any links?

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Rich Eagle
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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:36 am

The short answer is that the flywheel would need to have a ring gear on it and the transmission cover (hogshead) would need to be changed.
When did I do that?


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WorldChamp1914
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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by WorldChamp1914 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:43 am

Who makes the best starter and ring gear?

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Rich Eagle
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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:59 am

The starter and ring gear from a later model T is what is most often used. Starting in 1919 Ford put these units on the cars as an option. There were many more cars produced after the starter became available than before so they are not hard to find. The main effort in putting one on a 1914 car would be changing the flywheel as the engine would have to be removed from the car. That is unless a later flywheel had been already installed in the '14 at some time.
When did I do that?


Kerry
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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by Kerry » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:00 am

Short answer is simple to say, long answer is engine out, fly wheel change, magneto re-set up but usually a full rebuild, then the transmission needs rebuilding while you are inside, then lets look inside the engine as well. 5+? thousand dollars later in parts, you have a electric starting T :)

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AndreFordT
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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by AndreFordT » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:04 am

As Rich said,
you will need a starter, a flywheel with ring gear, a hoge head and don't forget an other magneto coil ring if the original coil ring is still on the car.

Good luck
Andre
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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by wayne sheldon » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:26 am

GARY! When did this happen? Sounds like it was pretty bad, or at least bad enough.
If your '14 has the original (or proper replacement) '14 engine, my feeling is that you should keep the correct motor in the car. Minimal is replace flywheel, hogshead, add starter, battery, and necessary wiring. Much of that can be hidden well enough, use either a T type starter switch/button, or a modern type solenoid (easy to hide!). Replacing the motor with a generator block IS NOT necessary. A common battery charger regularly used can maintain the battery, and the average model T can run all day (often two days) on a full charge battery. Many speedsters have run the entire Endurance Run including using a starter without a generator, and you know what that is like! It is also possible to make a simple charger to run off the Ford magneto if your '14 T has one.
Such an "upgrade" once done, can be easily undone if so desired. And keeping the correct engine keeps the car HCCA acceptable, and helps with value if or when you need to sell it.
Take good care of you my friend!


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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by Allan » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:19 am

Just an added complication. Can the 14 magneto coil plate be notched to allow the fitting of the starter/bendix assembly or must it be replaced with a later coil plate?

Allan from down under.

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Brian D
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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by Brian D » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:54 am

Unless your really attached to this 14 T, maybe purchase an already converted T. Sell it to someone still wanting an original non starter.
Maybe less expensive...
Just a thought, your T, anything goes.
Brian.


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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by RalphS in NE Oregon » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:34 am

Another thought. You could find a good running starter engine to replace your existing engine and keep the original engine in its unconverted state to sell to the next owner, hopefully far in the future.
Ralph


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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by Tom Hicks » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:55 am

RalphS in NE Oregon wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:34 am
Another thought. You could find a good running starter engine to replace your existing engine and keep the original engine in its unconverted state to sell to the next owner, hopefully far in the future.
Ralph
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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by Rich Bingham » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:23 am

I agree. When I was "shopping" for a T only two-three years ago it seemed the majority of pre-starter cars had been "upgraded". It was difficult to find brass cars for sale that hadn't been considerably modified with "improvements".
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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by Oldav8tor » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:13 am

I have a 1917 Touring that I've had a starter installed on. The car sat for many years and had no maintenance history so I wanted to go thru it anyway. With brian_d's help we pulled the engine and took it to a fellow who is set up to overhaul Model T's. In addition to updating and overhauling the engine and transmission, we installed a later model hogshead, rebuilt coil ring, and built the magneto up on a newer-type flywheel with a starter ring gear.

I did not install a generator choosing to go with a "total-loss" system. An "intelligent" plug-in charger in your garage will keep the battery up and you can get a lot of starts between charges. I have a similar setup on my 73 year old non-electrical airplane and it has worked great. There is also the option of going with a Fun Projects Hot Shot Charger, a simple device that uses current from your magneto to help keep the battery up. The latter might be useful if you plan a number of days on tour and have nowhere to plug in your car at night.

It cost me a few bucks but I now know the condition of my engine - what parts and seals are installed and I have a starter. The uninitiated wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the car now and before. As others have pointed out, you have options. You have to decide your priorities and go on from there.
engine.jpeg
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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by Mark Gregush » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:20 am

One thing that has not been covered, if you want to keep the lettered pedals, the brake and reverse are the same but the low/clutch pedal is different for starter cars down in the area where the bendix cover is. You would have to use a weld on lettered pedal head that the dealers sell or weld on a used head.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:43 am

I like the idea of putting in a starter engine, either already converted or 1919+, and keeping the current original type engine unmolested. Just changing cars would be good too.

As others have said, charging a battery with the magneto is very easy. http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG102.html
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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:54 am

I would personally mothball and remove the engine and replace with a later starter version. They are common enough. If the firewall is original, I'd also pull that, to save it. New firewalls are not that expensive and it would be a shame to hack up an original to fit a starter hog's head.

I say this from the perspective of a caretaker of my automobiles. If God willing, I live long enough to be too infirm to hand crank, I will be taking my own advice.
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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by BE_ZERO_BE » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:43 pm

I recently put a starter on a '15.
There are some "gotch-ya's" that are often overlooked.
One is that you will have to slightly modify the firewall to provide clearance for the starter.
I had to cut out a notch.
The starter just barely cleared the firewall to frame bracket.
You will need to find an accessible place for the battery.
This can be a bigger project that expected if you wand to hide the modification.
I installed a solenoid with a remote push button.

Regardless of which path you take (add starter or replace engine) the details of the project make it much more then "Just put in a ring gear and change the Hogshead.
Respectfully Submitted,
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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by RajoRacer » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:49 pm

I'm in Bob's camp on this discussion - I also own a '14 Touring that I converted (and hid most of the components) for an elderly customer many years ago due to his inability to hand crank any longer and after his passing, we were offered the T. Other than one hole drilled into the front seat panel, no harm, no foul !
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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by Allan » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:35 pm

An Optima 6volt battery, lying on its side, is the easiest to hide and most accessible way to go. Just be sure to use the correct weight cables.
Allan from down under.


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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by Tiger Tim » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:08 pm

How about finding and installing a period-correct aftermarket starter? You know, to be that guy.

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Re: Converting 1914 to Electric Start

Post by RajoRacer » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:42 pm

Those aftermarket starting units are few & far between. I had another customer/friend with a '09 that couldn't hand crank any longer and I searched for an "era" type starter for several years - notta !!! I relayed to him that if he insisted, I could install a later starter type engine so the original engine could be stored away but after explain several items that would need to be done like notching the bottom of the firewall and a few misc. drilled holes, he opted against the conversion which I'm sure the current owner appreciated !

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