Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

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Cigarboxrob
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Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Cigarboxrob » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:44 pm

Hello, everyone out there in Model T land!

After intently watching from the sidelines, (Especially during TROG.) I’ve decided to finally pull the trigger and adopt my first T-A 1926 Touring car....
....After a few hitches pulled by some unscrupulous “transportation broker/Jokers,” the car is due to be dropped off in Wildwood NJ in the wee hours of the morning....I can’t wait!

I’ve worked with and on a local 1918-So I’m reasonably well-versed thus far....My car is a solid original with only *one* hiccup; Although a new convertible top is included, the top irons were inadvertently thrown away! If I may ask, were the top irons different in 1926-7 than any other years, or is it possible I can use earlier Touring irons and make them fit? Thanks in advance! -Rob

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Henry K. Lee
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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Henry K. Lee » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:05 pm

Welcome to the CLUB!

Hank in Tin-A-See

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Oldav8tor
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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Oldav8tor » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:18 pm

Welcome to the obsession --- you'll find a lot of info and help on this forum.

As to the top irons - I'm no expert but I think you'll have to stay with the late model "One-man" top irons. They're out there.... There's an ad in the magazine for new top sockets and bows from an outfit in Auburn California called John's Enterprises.... I know nothing about them but their phone is 530-885-4956. Check the forum classifieds periodically or post a WTB (want to buy) ad and see what happens.

Good Luck!
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor


Russ T Fender
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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Russ T Fender » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:24 pm

I believe there is a small difference between the '26-'27 top and the earlier one man top.


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Norman Kling » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:30 pm

you can get brand new ones for about $1000 from the vendors. The 26 and 27 irons were different from the older ones. You can sometimes find used ones for sale but are usually in very poor condition because they were formed from thick sheet metal which was rolled and has an open seam. So over the years water gets inside and rusts them out from the inside out. Sometimes you can weld or braze them up but you need to be very careful not to force them when you put the top up or down. New ones will last a long time, but cost quite a bit.
Welcome to the club. See my 26 touring I will post 2 pictures. One was the day I bought it and the other as it is today.
Norm
26 touring as purchased.jpg
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Finished.jpg
Finished.jpg (52.14 KiB) Viewed 3903 times


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Cigarboxrob
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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Cigarboxrob » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:23 pm

....Sadly, this is a bad start.

....I had asked the seller if the title was good and clear-The seller responded: “Yes, perfect-I never even switched it into my name.”

It’s a whole no bueno situation. The point may be moot if I can’t register the car...There are a lot of moving parts in this equation to iron out tomorrow!


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Norman Kling » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:22 pm

Did you get the title signed by the former owner? If so, you can probably just transfer into your name even if the person you bought it from did not have it transfered, however, depending on the laws of your state, you might be liable to pay the taxes for the time since it was last licensed. When I bought mine, I had a company who specializes in registrations come and get the engine number and then checked it out as to whether it had been reported stolen or not. Fortunately I was able to get the title in my name. I registered it in California as non-operation until it was ready to put on the road. If I had not been able to get the title, I would not have restored it, but sold it for parts. In this state, you can register it as non-operation for $5 per year, but if you don't do so, you will be liable for the back taxes.
Norm


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:33 pm

I survived a case like this in FL. The actual original owner of a mint '73 Bonneville had signed over the title to a guy who intended to "flip" it. We bought the car and paid a fine to FL for the "delay in registering" the car (I don't remember the time limit). Subsequent to that, I discovered that what the flipper did was strictly illegal and it probably would not be hard to define me as a partner in that act. I did not know it at the time.

NJ will likely not be kind to you but I doubt that they will stop you from attaining a title and registration. I'd definitely have the VIN run by the police FIRST to see if it comes up stolen. This is not to suggest that it is, but if you do buy it and find it IS stolen, you will have little recourse to recover any $$. It is simply a prudent step in my opinion.

These cars are far too common to exert too much effort or risk in their purchase. I'll point to a very nice car offered on the classifieds the other day for <$6500 that drew no interest (and my opinion is that the car was a screaming deal which was simply initially not well presented photographically originally in the ad).
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!

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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Oldav8tor » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:52 pm

So Rob, did you get the car or not? If yes, photos would be nice.
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Cigarboxrob » Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:38 pm

....I got the car a few days ago-I only found out about the title when the transporter handed me the paperwork. The previous “owner” had filled their information in the “buyers” section from the original owner-Both being out-of-State. The man who sold me the car never signed, however. But their nickname-Not legal name-And address appear under: “Buyer-Print name and address.”

The man whom I bought the car from has offered to send out a notarized bill of sale and a letter explaining the situation. I’m hoping I can plead my case in a small-town DMV. I work for Ford-Our title clerk refused to even *touch* the title.

Interestingly enough, the car seems to be in no danger of starting. With a fully-charged battery, at most, the starter simply “lugs” for about 1/3 turn-When it works. Which it really doesn’t. Thankfully, I have a replacement switch that I’ll throw in. The old switch will eventually get hot. Since the shop area it’s currently living in is cold, It’s a bear to crank-But it won’t start on crank and magneto, either.

What should have been a joyous experience has been a nightmare thus far.
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Scott_Conger
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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Scott_Conger » Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:03 pm

Well, you are for sure going to need that notarized bill of sale. It is a good thing the seller is still answering the phone and offering to work with you. Take him up on it and fast.
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Russ T Fender » Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:39 pm

If you jack up a rear wheel, chock the front wheels and put the hand lever in neutral without it engaging the rear brakes you should be able to crank start the car with the switch in the battery position. Take out the plugs and put a couple of tablespoons of gas in each cylinder before you replace the plugs. That assumes you get each coil to buzz when you crank it through and that you have enough gas in the tank. I have started my '27 that way in 20 degree weather with a battery that would not turn over the starter at all. Good luck!


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Cigarboxrob
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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Cigarboxrob » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:47 pm

I actually tried jacking the rear and chocking the front wheels-Then engaging neutral as well as high gear-No luck on crank or battery.

....My car has been converted to coil and distributor...I’m actually going to replace the starter switch tomorrow and make sure everything is connected-Tightly. The fact that the switch gets hot and even smokes a little points to the: “Weakest link.” And that’s not holding it for any more than a few seconds. Either that, or there’s a momentary short close to the switch!

Hell or high-water, I intend on getting this “T” to become a titled and trusted member of my family!


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Trford » Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:24 pm

Welcome. To be a T owner requires some patience. It will all work out. Car looks great.

TomF

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Steve Jelf
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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:47 pm

...and make sure everything is connected-Tightly.

Wise words. A weak starter is often due to a weak ground, not the starter. It can also be due to a dying battery.

But this car's refusal to start is likely from something other than slow cranking. Even when cranking by hand, a slow turn should get it going. After all, a lot of these cars have no starter and are easy to start. Don't despair. You'll sort it out.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


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Cigarboxrob
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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Cigarboxrob » Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:41 pm

....Interesting question:

....As today’s rainstorm stopped all hopes of pushing her outside for an attempted start, I’m still thinking of options involving the title mishap-The seller of the car has been a good fellow thus far, but I’m thinking about a: “Plan B.”

It was suggested to me that I can title the car in Vermont and then use a loophole of sorts to simply pay double-tax, but at the end of the day I’ll be holding a valid NJ Title-Has anyone ever heard of this? Thanks again in advance!-Rob


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:03 pm

Do a search for "Bonded Title" and consider taking the steps there...
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Dave Young » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:32 pm

Hey, neighbor. Dave Young here. I'm right up the road in Mays Landing. That car looks very familiar. Is it from the west coast? If you want any help getting her going, let me know. Forget about the Vermont title thing. It can be done through the local DMV, but it's a long process. The manager at the Shore Mall DMV is a car guy and can guide you thru it. For the actual registration and QQ tags, you'll need to go to the Deptford DMV. Send me some more pictures via text. 609 289 0677


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Dave Young » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:35 pm

Isn't that Eric Bruckner's car that he was forced to sell a few years ago when he got divorced?


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Cigarboxrob
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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Cigarboxrob » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:43 pm

...It *was* a West Coast car-But that name hasn’t crossed my path yet. The car seems to have been sold every year...Given the large “kill switch,” I suspect it’s also been an electrical nightmare.

...That said? “Howdy, neighbor!”


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Cigarboxrob
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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Cigarboxrob » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:44 pm

And do you mean Mike? He’s a good guy. I wanted to reach out to him.


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Norman Kling » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:09 am

That looks like Erech's car. I saw it once. I would suggest that you pull it with a long rope. Attach at the front cross member or the spring but not the axle. pull it until it starts in high gear. Then have the towing vehicle stop. Once you get it running, you can fiddle with the carburetor adjustment and timing and find the "sweet spot" Next time you try to start it open the fuel mixture about 1/4 turn to start then lean it out after it runs a minute or two. A lot of owners use a kill switch just in case of a short when parked. That switch could also be the source of your problem. Many times they get corroded and don't make a good contact.
Norm


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:58 am

Towing to start as Norman K suggests can be a good way to get it going. Just one extra word of caution. Use a long rope as he suggested, but also, first, make sure whoever is in the T knows how to use the brakes and that they do work! Don't want to get confused and run into the towing vehicle.

Welcome to the affliction! Don't despair, don't get too frustrated. Both the starting and title issues can likely be resolved without any serious problems. I won't offer many suggestions on the titling issues, even though I have done several out here in Callifunny, because all states are different. You need to seek and follow advice from people familiar with YOUR state's bizarre proclivities.

The T looks nice! With a bit of perseverance, and just a little luck, by spring thaw you should be ready to drive life in the slow lane!


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by James_B_NC » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:22 pm

Don’t know if this has been mentioned or not, but check the starter terminal post. If you can wiggle it with your fingers, the buss bar is probably bad. Just got done fixing mine and that’s what I found
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Cigarboxrob
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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Cigarboxrob » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:46 pm

....I’m *petrified* to invest a cent or a moment’s worth of time more into “my” car if I can’t prove it’s “mine.”

May I ask the forum for help?

May I post the name of the last *Titled* owner of my car from Washington State to see if he’s a member?

Thoughts? I’ll pay for the duplicate title myself. I have yet to receive the: “Bill of Sale” from the man I bought the car from, who began to fill out the “buyer’s info” on the Washington State title....I’m not having a good feeling-The: “Car That won’t need a lot of work?

....Won’t even start. Fellas, I think I’ve been *had.*


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Scott_Conger » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:30 pm

I have one word for buyers of vehicles across a distance, or "sight unseen": Escrow

https://www.carchex.com/research-center ... explained/
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


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Cigarboxrob
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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Cigarboxrob » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:58 am

....I’ve bought two cars: “Sight Unseen” in the past-Both were good experiences. In my Model T search? I spoke to many great people. This car was represented as: “Needing nothing,” “ready to run and won’t need work as many do.” (Many of you saw the EBay Auction and have DM’d me about it.) I’d lost three Model T’s due to the bids *exceeding* the: “Buy it Now” number, So with 16-bids on the car, I decided to “jump” and pay full price.

The seller provided videos of the car running, a photo of the title (Not the back where this nightmare begins.) and even told me that he’d installed a new battery after I bought the car. The seller indicated that there was a new convertible top, and: “Top irons” which hadn’t been “sorted out.” As we have a welding shop, I figured the remains of the irons could be brazed should they be rotted.

The day the transport service was slated to pick up the car, the seller contacted me to let me know the “irons” had been likely thrown out, but he was including a bucket of Model T and Model A parts to resell or barter-The car was paid for, so what was I to do? I grumbled that I was likely due to spend quite a bit on irons, but accepted.

Then? My shipper handed me the title when the seller filled the info in on the back-And neglected to sign. The document was useless as a: “Jumped Title,” And here I am. The car has *never* started-The one that was: “Ready to go,” and: “Didn’t need all the work that so many do.” Among Many hand-written notes was a recommendation that a new starter switch was included as the old one was problematic, as well as a suggestion to switch to 12v....Hardly: “Ready to go,” as advertised.

I’m headed to Motor Vehicle this morning to plead my case.


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Cigarboxrob » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:24 am

No luck with Motor Vehicle; I reached out to the original owner-I’m hoping that if I offer to pay him to obtain a duplicate title as well as for his time and troubles, he’ll be willing to do me a favor on this one!


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by John kuehn » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:14 pm

Hopefully the actual owner will help get the title situation straightened out. I’ve learned over the years that doing things the right way isn’t always the same for all sellers. People have different ideas about titles. I bought a 56 Ford years ago and got the title. I didn’t look at it closely enough and later found out the supposedly seller signed it in the wrong place. It had been “sold” 3 other times before I got it and nobody ever had it transferred. Talk about a screwed up deal. I learned the hard way that getting a “title” is only as good as the guy who is doing the selling.


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:04 pm

You need a Bill of Sale
You need a Bill of Sale
You need a Bill of Sale
You need a Bill of Sale
You need a Bill of Sale

If this guy is going to do you any more "favors", it should be THIS first.

Anything more will be gravy, but I suspect, doubtful.

With a Bill of Sale that includs the VIN on it (and the cops do a run on the VIN and it is not stolen), you will slowly be able to acquire a Title through the DMV.

BTW, the previous "owner" will not be able to get a duplicate title...he never titled it into his own name. He will have to "buy" it, pay taxes and late fees, recieve his ORIGINAL title, sign it over to you and send it to you. Good luck with that.

Too late for OP, but lesson for everyone else: Done through Escrow, this would be back on a truck to the "owner".
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!


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Cigarboxrob
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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Cigarboxrob » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:58 pm

Hi, Scott!

....Because the man who “owned” the car and consequently sold it to me on eBay never titled the car in his own name, I skipped him altogether and reached out to the original titled owner in Washington State; With any luck? He’ll help. The EBay seller most likely would not satisfy the sales tax, and his: “Bill of Sale” is moot regardless-New Jersey will not accept them, either. New Jersey reached out to Washington State to confirm the title’s issuance (Even though I have the altered document.)

....Sadly, according to the manager at the DMV, (Who happens to be a: “Car Guy.”) I have about two months of pure hell ahead of me in the event the last titled owner refuses to help-That, or spend approximately $1,000.00 in another state. New Jersey will no longer accept a: “Bonded Title,” either! It’s a shame-I’ve bought several cars online with positive results from enthusiasts-Never had a problem with any of them....Almost every Model T person I spoke to was beyond helpful...Escrow it is from now on!


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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:03 pm

Ahh...I missed the part where you contacted the original owner...you may just make headway that way. Very best of luck to you.

On the bright side, this will teach patience which will prove valuable when you're in the process of shimming a mag ring some day :) ...
Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!

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George Mills
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Re: Newbie-Hello, Everyone!

Post by George Mills » Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:53 pm

Bob,

Me thinks you need to break this into sections and chase both until whole.

First....immediately contact ebay and ask about the Vehicle Protection Plan. I think you are covered and they tend to go deaf at 30 days...so this is first. There is a line item in VPP specifically for titles that are unusable when received. Worth a try.

Second....unfortunately, you live in NJ (groan) home of some of the worst vehicle compliance title rules! Dave Young advice is sound...but I’ll say this from personal experience. Deptford folks are too authoritarian and if you go in clean you come out quick. If you go in with a question, you are basically screwed from the first “I don’t know” from the clerk AND the branch manager tends to back his peoples view 100% of the time. On the other hand...Salem DMV sees mixed up things every day of the week... cars having 2 vin numbers, and if you have ‘22 fenders on a ‘26 they say so what...and they are still willing to find a way to roll a Title to a STANDARD title where Deptford when feeling compromised offers a RECONSTRUCTED title. Ok a title is a title, but with the later your value always tanks.

Third...you can always find a long lost cousin IF you get a bill of sale. Ironically, that cousin lives in a bill of sale to title state and you gift him your car. Once titled, he gifts the title back and...if they are close enough by blood...NJ forgives any tax...

Just sayin...but seriously NJ is one of the toughest, if not THE toughest in the USA! Deptford once tried a reconstructed title on me because in the pictures you have to supply the low hood was in primer! Argument failed and an hour later was back with new pics...it had morphed into a high hood but Ford black that matched. Got my title and tags, went home and swapped the parts back to low hood in primer...lol. New Jersey and you...perfect together 🥴

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