Ignition Coils
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Topic author - Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:21 pm
- First Name: Dante
- Last Name: Berkheimer
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 roadster pick up
- Location: Glenford ohio
Ignition Coils
My brother and I have recently purchased a 1926 Model T roadster pick up ( I think this is the correct term it is a convertible)
Unit was half restored and we are looking for advice on the ignition coils. Unit came with a all in one box (would not start FYI) and we wanted to put it back to original so we purchased 4 reman coils from Gaslight Auto Parts. Once installed we can not get them to ignite. We have 6.7 volts to bottom of the box, 6.7 volts coming out of the box at spark plug wires & 6.7 volts at spark plug still no hum or fire at plug. Any advice would be appreciated
Unit was half restored and we are looking for advice on the ignition coils. Unit came with a all in one box (would not start FYI) and we wanted to put it back to original so we purchased 4 reman coils from Gaslight Auto Parts. Once installed we can not get them to ignite. We have 6.7 volts to bottom of the box, 6.7 volts coming out of the box at spark plug wires & 6.7 volts at spark plug still no hum or fire at plug. Any advice would be appreciated
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- Posts: 4956
- Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Gregush
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1920 Dodge touring, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
- Location: Portland Or
- MTFCA Number: 52564
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: Ignition Coils
I suggest you buy an owners manual, Gas light should have one that cover your year. Learning terms and what parts are is part of the hobby so we can all be on the same page. At the least look up "mtfca; ignition system" on google or your search engine to get you started. Are you using a timer or? You would not have 6.7 volts coming out the spark plug wires. So without photos of how you are hooked up, or more information I think at this point might be hard to help.
Thanks Chris or Jeff for moving it.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/41 ... 1414969907
Thanks Chris or Jeff for moving it.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/41 ... 1414969907
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
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- Posts: 1518
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
- First Name: Duane
- Last Name: Cooley
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 18 Runabout, 24 Runabout for 20yrs, 25 TT, late Center Door project, open express pickup
- Location: central MN
- MTFCA Number: 32488
- Board Member Since: 2015
Re: Ignition Coils
Good on you! Calling it a Roadster pickup is great! These guys and me love the pickups.
How's your timer/commutator? Clean? Or fairly clean? Clean it up and try again
You'll love the sound from that coil box and those four coils when you get it sorted.
How's your timer/commutator? Clean? Or fairly clean? Clean it up and try again
You'll love the sound from that coil box and those four coils when you get it sorted.
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated
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- Posts: 585
- Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:04 am
- First Name: Luke
- Last Name: P
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926
- Location: New Zealand
Re: Ignition Coils
Dante,
Mark has given very good advice, but I have a suspicion around what's happened...
If you look at your coils. the bottom connector is for the +6V feed, the top connector at the side is the ground (-6V), and the lower side connector is the EHT output to the spark plug.
These correlate to the coil box you've described thus:
(1) The very bottom lead underneath the box should be 6V from the ignition switch
(2) The lower row of the four side connections should go to each corresponding plug
(3) The upper row of the four side connections should go to the timer at the lower front of the motor
If you're getting 6V at the plugs it seems likely to me that you may have (2) and (3) transposed (ie. the upper row is connected to the plugs)? If so, swapping these around may be all you need to do to make the motor run,
With (3), if your wiring loom is tidy it should be obvious which leads go where, but if not you should follow Mark's suggestions and look for a diagram that will show you which of the timer connections/wires goes to which coil...
Mark has given very good advice, but I have a suspicion around what's happened...
If you look at your coils. the bottom connector is for the +6V feed, the top connector at the side is the ground (-6V), and the lower side connector is the EHT output to the spark plug.
These correlate to the coil box you've described thus:
(1) The very bottom lead underneath the box should be 6V from the ignition switch
(2) The lower row of the four side connections should go to each corresponding plug
(3) The upper row of the four side connections should go to the timer at the lower front of the motor
If you're getting 6V at the plugs it seems likely to me that you may have (2) and (3) transposed (ie. the upper row is connected to the plugs)? If so, swapping these around may be all you need to do to make the motor run,
With (3), if your wiring loom is tidy it should be obvious which leads go where, but if not you should follow Mark's suggestions and look for a diagram that will show you which of the timer connections/wires goes to which coil...
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- Posts: 3907
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Kuehn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
- Location: Texas
- MTFCA Number: 28924
Re: Ignition Coils
Good advice to new T owners is to get the manuals and study them to learn about basic Model T parts and how they function. By studying the manuals you can save yourself lots of time and learn what NOT to do with a a T.
The Model T service manual or the “bible” as T owners call it is a must have along with the MTFCA manuals for different aspects of the car.
Model T’s have 100 year old technology and it’s a relearning curve for some folks.
The Model T service manual or the “bible” as T owners call it is a must have along with the MTFCA manuals for different aspects of the car.
Model T’s have 100 year old technology and it’s a relearning curve for some folks.
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- Posts: 1411
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:57 am
- First Name: Adam
- Last Name: Doleshal
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘13 Touring, ‘24 Touring, ‘25 TT dump truck, ‘26 Tudor, ‘20 Theiman harvester T powerplant, ‘20 T Staude tractor
- Location: Wisconsin
- MTFCA Number: 23809
- MTFCI Number: 1
- Board Member Since: 2000
Re: Ignition Coils
He said the car came with “an all in one box”. I’m thinking this is a “True Fire” or similar ignition system. He replaced that with regular coils, but didn’t mention doing anything with the timer or wiring... I think some of those “spurious” ignition systems include timer and/or wiring modifications that would prevent proper coil operation...
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- Posts: 3389
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:53 am
- First Name: Tim
- Last Name: Wrenn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13 Touring, '26 "Overlap" Fordor
- Location: Ohio
- MTFCA Number: 30701
- MTFCI Number: 24033
- Board Member Since: 2019
Re: Ignition Coils
If I may, I would like to add to Adams post above, he is definitely correct, if it has Tru-Fire which it appears to have, it definitely has an entirely different "thing" down in the commutator cover. He will need to "gut" it, and indeed if I remember from my former '20 that had T.F., there is a slight difference in the wiring up to the posts on the firewall. Likewise, he needs to BE SURE to verify if
it even HAS a magneto! Much to my surprise, on my 20, there was NONE. I suspect this is often why someone converts to the electronic ignition gizmos, either due to a dead mag, or the total absence of one. Just my two cents.
it even HAS a magneto! Much to my surprise, on my 20, there was NONE. I suspect this is often why someone converts to the electronic ignition gizmos, either due to a dead mag, or the total absence of one. Just my two cents.
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- Posts: 6463
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Jelf
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
- Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
- MTFCA Number: 16175
- MTFCI Number: 14758
- Board Member Since: 2007
- Contact:
Re: Ignition Coils
A bunch of experienced Model T guys couldn't figure out how come there was no spark...
...until Verne came back from lunch and pointed out what we obviously had wrong.
This shows correct wiring with a normal timer.
...until Verne came back from lunch and pointed out what we obviously had wrong.
This shows correct wiring with a normal timer.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
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- Posts: 2385
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:17 pm
- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Strange
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Cut Off Touring (now a pickup)
- Location: Hillsboro, MO
- MTFCA Number: 30944
- MTFCI Number: 23667
- Board Member Since: 2013
Re: Ignition Coils
Dante, please take the lid off the coil box and take a picture of what is inside, that will settle whether it is Ford standard coils or some aftermarket box.
If you're feeling brave, please also remove the timer cover and take a picture of the inside of the cover and the timer rotor on the front of the camshaft.
Without seeing what you have, we can only guess on how to help.
If you're feeling brave, please also remove the timer cover and take a picture of the inside of the cover and the timer rotor on the front of the camshaft.
Without seeing what you have, we can only guess on how to help.
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
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- Posts: 3907
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Kuehn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
- Location: Texas
- MTFCA Number: 28924
Re: Ignition Coils
Steve your close up of the coil box wires shows how things can get upside down without thinking about it!
I had to look twice or so before I caught on what’s upside down. Guess I’m getting old and slow. Good point to bring up though. Those simple things can drive you nuts sometimes.
I had to look twice or so before I caught on what’s upside down. Guess I’m getting old and slow. Good point to bring up though. Those simple things can drive you nuts sometimes.
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- Posts: 3389
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:53 am
- First Name: Tim
- Last Name: Wrenn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13 Touring, '26 "Overlap" Fordor
- Location: Ohio
- MTFCA Number: 30701
- MTFCI Number: 24033
- Board Member Since: 2019
Re: Ignition Coils
Mark, you're right, he should definitely remove the timer cover. Cause as I still bet with Adam, that it had a Tru Fire setup in the coil box orignally, that he just removed, thinking by only putting in 4 "standard coils" would do the trick. Not possible. The T.F. electronic rotor mechanism will have to be removed, and some preferred form of timer rotor installed, and again, it seems to me there's a slight difference with the wires going up to the firewall. Seems mine had one going from some coil post to ground but it evades my lame brain now, as I haven't owned the car in over a year.
And assuming this is the case, as I said, then he has to figure out WHY it had the T.F. in the first place. Faulty mag? Or no mag? Or just maybe the former owner wanted the experience. When working well, the T.F. does perform nicely. Enuf said.
And assuming this is the case, as I said, then he has to figure out WHY it had the T.F. in the first place. Faulty mag? Or no mag? Or just maybe the former owner wanted the experience. When working well, the T.F. does perform nicely. Enuf said.
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- Posts: 5201
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: Ignition Coils
As far as I recall, the only deviation from the standard wiring when fitting my True fire was the addition of an earth wire. All that should be needed is to remove this. Otherwise, changing the rotor button and electronic timer for a standard roller/brush type timer is all that is needed.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
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Topic author - Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:21 pm
- First Name: Dante
- Last Name: Berkheimer
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 roadster pick up
- Location: Glenford ohio
Re: Ignition Coils
Thanks for all the advice, we are working on unit tomorrow and I will advise..
Happy New Year!
Happy New Year!
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- Posts: 5407
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
- First Name: Frank
- Last Name: Brandi
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
- Location: Moline IL
- Board Member Since: 2018
Re: Ignition Coils
I would suggest that you do a continuity test and the timer wiring. Disconnect all of them from the coil box test each one individually by hand cranking the engine; If good connections no need to remove the timer cover. Not sure if this would work on T coils but works on distributor condenser. If you test for continuity of the coil with a multimeter (this action actually puts a charge into the coils condenser) see below...
READ THIS so you don't shock yourself regardless of testing the coils https://www.ifixit.com/Wiki/Troubleshho ... components
Basically To test the capacitor with a multimeter, set the meter to read in the high ohms range, somewhere above 10k and 1m ohms. Touch the meter leads to the corresponding leads on the capacitor (T coil), red to positive and black to negative. The meter should start at zero and then moving slowly toward infinity. This means that the capacitor is in working condition. If the meter stays at zero, the capacitor is not charging through the battery of the meter, meaning it is not working.
READ THIS so you don't shock yourself regardless of testing the coils https://www.ifixit.com/Wiki/Troubleshho ... components
Basically To test the capacitor with a multimeter, set the meter to read in the high ohms range, somewhere above 10k and 1m ohms. Touch the meter leads to the corresponding leads on the capacitor (T coil), red to positive and black to negative. The meter should start at zero and then moving slowly toward infinity. This means that the capacitor is in working condition. If the meter stays at zero, the capacitor is not charging through the battery of the meter, meaning it is not working.
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger
Mick Jagger
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Topic author - Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:21 pm
- First Name: Dante
- Last Name: Berkheimer
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 roadster pick up
- Location: Glenford ohio
Re: Ignition Coils
Looks like we are on our way to getting the T running.
Thanks to Brent Mize for his help with the coils, timer and house call.
Correct on the conversion of the true fire, we had to convert timer back to original option and we got her to fire.
Again thanks to everyone for your input. Looking forward to this project..
Thanks to Brent Mize for his help with the coils, timer and house call.
Correct on the conversion of the true fire, we had to convert timer back to original option and we got her to fire.
Again thanks to everyone for your input. Looking forward to this project..