Starter removal on a 1926

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Mopar_man
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Starter removal on a 1926

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:04 pm

I'm removing the starter from my 26 and have run into an issue. The car (previous owner) must have suffered something catastrophic because the Bendix drift pin and little spring was found in the oil pan as well as the whole assembly had to be gently tapped off the shaft. As I started to pull out the starter I noticed that the mag ring was still in the way and not showing the notch where you can pull the starter out. Does the Mag turn with the flywheel? I tried to turn the engine over with the crank while I watched and did not see it move. Am I missing something?


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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by Humblej » Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:44 pm

The mag ring does not rotate, it is bolted to the block. If all of the bendix has been removed, the starter should pull out.

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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:54 pm

It's not. It moves passed the part of the starter shaft where there is a part of the shaft covering machined off but gets stuck on the Mag after that. It does not look like there is a notch on the Mag ring. Trying not to force it but it won't come out.

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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by George Mills » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:02 pm

once upon a time...I was so green I pulled a starter with the bendix on...just cussed a bunch!

To make matters worse, after a local guy peened the bus to the stud, since that was the problem...loose stud...I put it back in the car with the Bendix on! That was just triple cussing and I didn’t know any better then. I was sure I pulled on a spool wrap as that’s what it felt like when I learned years later the Bendix needed to come off...but 20 years later the mag still worked fine! Lol

Anyway....if you have the whole Bendix off, the starter should just pull out the other end???

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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:14 pm

This may help. I took a video of what I trying to do. Any help would be appreciated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx3db0IFPD0

How then youtube video works.


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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by rickg » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:39 pm

It looks like you may need to remove the hogshead and get the correct mag ring which will require removing the engine.

Rick

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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:59 pm

I think that's the issue. I'm pulling the engine anyway so I plan on taking off the Hog's head. I bet the previous owner didn't use the correct Mag ring.


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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by jiminbartow » Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:08 pm

Would it be possible for you to use a long 1/8” drill bit and go in from behind to drill multiple 1/8” holes, close together in the mag coil ring in a sideways arc so that enough of the cast iron mag coil ring can be removed to allow the removal of the starter? Might be worth consideration in order to avoid pulling the engine. Of course if you did want to try this, you would need to tie a strong magnet below the area being drilled to catch the steel shavings. After the starter was removed, you could smooth out the arc with a dremel tool and burr. Just a thought. I’d consider almost anything to avoid pulling a good engine. Jim Patrick

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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:13 pm

Well I have to pull the engine anyway because the Tripple gears are hitting the flywheel. I'm going to leave it on and take the hogs head off and when I rebuild the Transmission I'll put the correct Mag ring in.

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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by RajoRacer » Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:14 pm

There was an obvious failure most likely the result of attempting to start the T with the spark advanced - that's what will unwind the Bendix spring and break the balance ring from the gear.

Can you not tip the starter up & towards the engine more to facilitate a smidge more clearance ?


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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:16 pm

You only need to lift the front of the hog's head slightly to get clearance, but it really sounds like something remains on the starter shaft. Are you absolutely certain all of the broken parts are off? You should be able to look into the hole and clearly see the starter shaft "floating" in the babbit or bronze bushing. The number of non-starter mags vs starter mags is miniscule and I really find it hard to believe that a '26 would be fitted with such.
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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by Mark Gregush » Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:33 pm

From his video, I don't see the notch ether. Who knows what someone has done in the past. :x
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by John kuehn » Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:58 pm

Assuming you pulled off the Bendix cover you should be able to use a small mirrow to peer inside to see a notch or not on the mag ring. Or to see if there is something on the starter shaft. As I remember you have to angle the starter a bit to pull it out. Or you may need to carefully pull back with the starter level and then angle a bit for it to come out.
If there is no notch in the mag ring how could it have been installed to start with. Have put together a few T engines and trying to envision how it could be installed without the notch in the mag ring. Does someone else know??

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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:45 pm

Well I wonder if the guy who put it together booted it to the Hog's head or just loosened it enough to get the shaft past the Mag. I know I got all of the bendex out because I compared it to the new one I had as well as a drawing of the starter. I still have to pull the engine because of the Transmission problem. So I attached the starter with 2 bolts for now and when I take the Hog's head off before I pull the engine I'll get it out. Then I'll see what kind of Mag ring I have. I was planning to put a new one in anyway so I'll make sure I get the right one. Thanks for all the help!!!


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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:24 pm

Well, Robert, I failed to look at your YouTube video before. Shame on me for not, and giving bad advice. Looks like your assumption is right on. That is a very strange thing, having the wrong ring. As an aside, bendix's end up looking like that after continued use with 12V, or consistently trying to start the car too far advanced on timing.

Once it's all apart, look to see how bad the shaft is bent and if the new bendix can actually fit into the "snout" of the starter and spin without binding. There is no point having to pull that thing twice.

Good luck to you.
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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:27 pm

Thanks Scott. I'll check the shaft.

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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:05 pm

About the time you think you've heard everything, along comes a 1926 with a pre-1919 mag ring. I want to see pictures when you get this thing open. No telling what other weirdness lies hidden inside. :D
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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by Mopar_man » Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:09 pm

I can already see so much that is wrong. I'm not sure I want to see what's inside!!


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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by John kuehn » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:48 pm

Be aware your 26 is not the first T with parts from different year T’s. Does your 26 have the 2 ears on top of the transmission cover that bolt on to the back of the block? That’s the way you can be sure you have a 26-27 block and transmission cover. People have used the earlier engines before in the newer T’s because they would fit.
What’s interesting is the non notched mag ring with a starter. It will come apart but maybe you can remove the cover and starter together to get it apart. Seems like you could but it would be easier if the engine was out of the car.
Good luck.

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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by RustyFords » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:31 pm

They must have installed the starter while the engine wasn’t in the car. That would’ve probably made room to angle it in.
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Re: Starter removal on a 1926

Post by jiminbartow » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:33 am

They may have installed the starter, bendix and hogshead while engine was in car. The bendix, not being meshed properly with the flywheel gear ring, may have resulted in the damage to the bendix you described when starting it for the first time, the gear ring caused the bendix to bind and break. Jim Patrick

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