Getting Rattles Back On The Road

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Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:34 pm

So about 3 and a half years ago my wife found a 1926 Touring for sale in the local paper. I went to look at the car and bought it. The guy showed me a video of the car running form the previous year. He said the the Clutch was stuck and that was why the rear wheel was now not moving. As I took a better look at it when I got it home I found that one of the triple gears was hitting the flywheel (I had posted about that here before). So I have to pull the engine. Life took over and I had to get a lot of other things done on my other cars as well as my garage. Now I'm able to have some time to get the car back on the road. So I'm going to try to document what I do here. That way you all can laugh, cry, and yell at me. Ha!! My daughter named the car Rattles. Not sure how long this is going to take but here goes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMjIHZjIv_0


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Scott_Conger » Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:47 pm

:lol: Robert! You just broke Rule #1! (Never leave the key or anything which can fall into the transmission when the cover is off). At least you have a retrieval strap for that key! :lol:

Seriously, once you're done with the engine and you're on the road, cover that hole everytime you walk away from it. You will be horrified by what can fall in and will reveal itself only upon engine start. :o

It looks like a great basis for lots of family fun. Good luck.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:54 pm

So today I got some parts off the car. I also had my daughter Angie with me to help.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:55 pm

Oh I know. I read the horror stories about what can fall in there. That's why I have the lanyard on there. After I made the video the cover went back on. Ha!

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:01 pm

Angie working on the generator bolts. The book says to pry the gears apart when removing the generator. Is it going to be that hard to put the gears back together?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdGRVQ01fso

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:09 pm

So this is what I got done today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BopHyYvefpQ

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by CudaMan » Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:05 pm

What a great name for a car! Glad you are making progress. :)
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by otrcman » Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:23 pm

If I may make a suggestion, buy Angie a nice pair of mechanic's gloves. Attractive young ladies prefer to not have broken fingernails, bandages on fingers, etc.

For most aspiring young male mechanics, an injury is a badge of honor. Not so for young ladies.

And kudos for instructing your daughter about cars. And kudos for spending quality time with her.

Dick

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:44 pm

Ha! Thanks Dick. She has a pair of gloves. My daughter is the kind of kid who was overjoyed when she got to put her had in the grease to pack a wheel bearing on my 67 Charger. Ha!!

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Angmar » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:37 pm

Great job getting your daughter involved. Looking forward to seeing what comes of the tear down.
Still crankin old iron


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:07 pm

The triple gear pin must be broken in order for the gear to touch the flywheel like that :( Looks like a nice car otherwise

Stephen

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:19 am

I think the pin may be broken as well. We will have to see once I open up the engine.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:41 pm

Today I did a bit more work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv66GyP4WWA
IMG_3101.jpeg
Not sure if this is ok under the starter switch. Looks like it was getting a bit hot. Is this normal?
IMG_3101.jpeg
The are the plugs back to front Left to right. Any comments? Look normal? Looks a bit rich to me on two cylinders.
IMG_3101.jpeg
The oil line.

More to go.....
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IMG_3104.jpeg
IMG_3105.jpeg
Last edited by Mopar_man on Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:55 pm

Re Sparkplugs

generally speaking, the front, #1 plug will run the coolest and rear #4 plug will run the hottest. It is the nature of the beast with respect to coolant flow.

That said, nearly every as-is car I've worked on, has cheap $2 paper gaskets at the intake/exhaust manifold glands. They invariably are deteriorated to the point of failure. It looks to me that you have an intake leak and to run, the carburetor is set to very rich to keep the car running. This results in two plugs running very lean and two plugs running very rich.

Use these: https://www.modeltford.com/item/3063-64.aspx if your exhaust manifold is straighte enough (it almost surely won't be), so if not, use these: https://www.modeltford.com/item/3063MC.aspx

If you want to have high probability of failure and warp the exhaust manifold further, use this: https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_mode ... erial.html which of course you don't want to do..just wanted you to see what an inferior product looked like
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by John kuehn » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:56 pm

Starter switch doesn’t look bad to me. Pretty much normal. I bought some for spares at swap meets and they looked worse than that. What usually goes in T starter switches is not using a back up wrench or tightening the cables on the switch terminals to the point when you start breaking out the hard rubber insulators that’s on the bolt in the squared holes on switch frame.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:04 pm

Thanks Scott and John. I will get the correct gaskets for the intake and exhaust. Good to know that the switch is ok.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:40 pm

I just put an order in for a bunch of blots and odds and ends for the engine. Most of the bolts were the wrong length, etc. Got a question. Who makes the 1926 Water inlet with eccentric? I've seen several for sale with different prices. Some with the hardware some without.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:58 pm

Well so far today I got the plate mounted to the engine stand.
IMG_3110.jpeg
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:02 pm

So this is is what happened when I tried to use the Pack Nut Wrench. It was too small. I called the vendor I bought it from and he said it fit the nuts they had. He gave me the measurement and when I measured my Pack Nut it was bigger. I used a pair of channel locks and got it off ok. I also bought a new nut.

IMG_3109.jpeg


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Scott_Conger » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:50 pm

Robert

sometimes those repro wrenches need to be kissed on a belt sander or a grinding wheel. I have an original wrench which fit an old nut just fine, but because I tour and wanted to carry a wrench (and not an original pristine one) I bought a repro wrench. Wouldn't fit the nut. Huh. Ground the surface roughness off the jaws and everything was fine. Has seen a lot of rough use since then and is holding up fine.

FWIW.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:59 pm

I'll give some sanding a try on the wrench. I was able to get the steering column out today as well.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:08 pm

So this is what the valve spring area looked like.
IMG_3117.jpeg
IMG_3118.jpeg

Looks clean.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:11 pm

This is why you need to check your T all the time. They guy who put this car together neglected to put any cotter pins in and I found one of the bolts loose.
IMG_3119.jpeg


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by wayne sheldon » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:02 pm

It looks like you have a pretty good handle on what a T is all about! Work seems to be going well, things looking pretty good (but that steering ball sure needs some good grease after a proper cleaning and fitting!), and progress is being made. And quality family time is a wonderful plus!
Good stuff! The satisfaction once you get to drive it is something to look forward to.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:07 pm

So today I got the engine ready to pull and it will not come apart at the 4th main. I think I'm answering my own question but is there a pin in that hole full of grease?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd1D6ZEdW4Y

IMG_3129.jpg

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:08 pm

Thanks Wayne. I've been reading about this stuff for the last 3 years and I finally got the time to get this done.


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Dallas Landers » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:20 pm

Is the radious rod ball unhooked from the pan? Been there and forgot that detail.


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by wayne sheldon » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:44 pm

The U-joint is supposed to just slip out from the back of the transmission. The hole in the U-joint ball is just for the grease from the grease cap in the ball clamp collar to get inside to grease the u-joint. There IS a pin to hold the U-joint onto the drive shaft. There are two small "bolt caps" (plugs?) behind the U-joint ball to access the pin holding the U-joint onto the drive shaft. The plugs must be removed, then the drive shaft rotated to line up the pin with the holes. The pin usually has to be partially drilled out before the remains of the pin can be driven out. The pin is supposed to be peened on both ends to keep from working loose and trying to cut the end of the torque tube off (seen it!).

Dallas L's suggestion is a good one! You might be amazed how many people have done that (Including me).
Another likely possibility is that the U-joint is simply stuck in the back of the transmission. They need to be greased, both when assembled and as maintenance. Sometimes they hydraulically seize and will not pull out. I have had ones so stuck I used jacks and/or come-alongs to force them out. DO NOT pull (push?) TOO hard, frames can be bent that way. But about fifty pounds of push (pull?) along with copious amounts of WD-40 (a MUCH better washing than lubricating product!) sprayed in as close to the U-joint's insertion can work near miracles.
Last edited by wayne sheldon on Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:50 pm

Dallas!!! I think you hit it right on the head. Nope I did not detach the rod. That must be it. I'll hit it again tomorrow. So the pin I was talking about is meant to stay in place unless you are removing the U joint.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:11 pm

Yes, the pin holding the U-joint on the DS is farther back, behind the ball. As Wayne said, it has nothing to do with separating the U-joint from the transmission. That should just slide right out.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by RustyFords » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:40 am

I’m following along Robert.

Your situation reminds me of mine when I started on my first Model T 3 years ago. I wasn’t new to old cars but I was a novice at all things Model T.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Dallas Landers » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:01 am

Robert, its easy to miss. I pulled the body on my roadster to replace the frame a couple weeks ago and still missed it with the body off :oops:

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:57 pm

Well I got the engine out after work today!!!
IMG_3134.jpeg
IMG_3135.jpeg
When I took off the Rad Rod I found not cotter pins and different size springs. That's not good.

IMG_3133.jpeg

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:01 pm

So now I can see two issues that I had known about . First the Mag Ring is the wrong year. That explains why my starter wouldn't come out.
IMG_3136.jpeg

Then I saw that one of the pins was broken on this triple gear. I hope that's the only issue..
IMG_3137.jpeg

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by CudaMan » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:14 am

Looks like you're making good progress. Those wishbone ball cap studs/nuts need to be wired to each other, not cotter pinned. If you use cotter pins, the nuts will be retained on the studs, but the studs can still back out from the pan.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:06 pm

It looks as if the removable bands have been ground on for clearance sake. They were installed backwards.

If I am correct in the tangs having been ground back, you will want to a) locate new old bands and b) install them with the removable ears on the driver's side
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Banjoe » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:58 pm

Lots of great learning being absorbed by following your progress. Many thanks for starting such a fascinating discussion, Robert.
None of us is as smart as all of us.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:09 pm

Thanks Cudaman. I'll make sure I do that. I also will go over the safety checklist as well.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:26 pm

Well today I got the Pan off. here is a look inside.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpwDrVDo_No

As you can see the triple gear is jammed against the flywheel. The pan looks real clean. Some sludge in the bottom.
IMG_3138.jpeg
So I was told in my post that the bands were ground and needed to be replaced. I don't see any marks on them. Do they look ok?

IMG_3141.jpeg


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:36 pm

They do in fact look fine...just installed backwards
Consider new lining material based on reverse band

Purchase Repairing And Restoring The Model T Ford Transmission and also do some searching on the MTFCA forum for discussions on triple pin bushing clearance. Reading the book and studying the volumes of info on the forum, you will find key things, like how to press out the pins without destroying the flywheel, and what sort of clearance the bushings should be to the pins. Yours were likely set too tight at the last rebuild. Finally, I'd strongly suggest you purchase new bushings from Bob's Antique Auto. They are the closest things to the correct material, and that is important. He supplies them to some, but not all other suppliers, and I don't know which is which, so stick with Bob's.

This is going to undoubtedly be a learning experience for you. Good luck and go slowly.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:29 pm

Thanks for the Info Scott!!!! I plan on replacing the lining as well as getting my bushings from Bob's. Everyone recommends him. I never knew there was a right and left for the bands.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:54 pm

OK let's play what the heck is this from? When I pulled the pan off I was careful to not turn the engine upside-down and I found this piece of metal.
IMG_3145.jpeg
IMG_3144.jpeg
If you expand the pictures you can see that it has a V shape in the metal. I looked at my ring gear and although some of the teeth weren't perfect there was no indication that it came from there. It was found in the transmission part of the pan. If you read above you will see that my Bendix was broken as well as the pin holding one of the triple gears.

Any guess???

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:26 pm

Well I answered my own question. In looking at the bendix there is a metal ring that is supposed to be attached to the gear that runs up and down the shaft. It is attached on a part of the gear with a V detent. It broke off from there. Happy to know where parts come from when they break.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:16 pm

So this is what I found in the oil pan. Not bad. A bit of oil sludge but not much gray Babbit juice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix2dPw6 ... e=youtu.be

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:22 pm

So I got the transmission of the engine today.

The first thing I noticed was the safety wire was not connected that well.
IMG_3148.jpeg

I was now able to get in my head and see how this wrench is used.
IMG_3150.jpeg
IMG_3151.jpeg
This is my Transmission Selfie!
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:25 pm

So this is not the correct Mag Ring for a 26/7. Explains why I could not get my starter out.
IMG_3156.jpeg

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:28 pm

So how do these Transmission bands look?

I plan on changing them since I have everything apart.
IMG_3154.jpeg
IMG_3153.jpeg


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by wayne sheldon » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:51 pm

Appears to be a pre-starter mag coil ring, but not much earlier than '17. If it is in good condition, it would work fine. A large coarse rat-tail file would take care of the starter notch real quick! The notch doesn't need to be very deep, about a quarter of an inch. A lot of people however, would recommend getting a rebuilt coil ring for reliability reasons. The original cotton wrappings have a tendency to be somewhat rotten after nearly a hundred years. And churning oil can remove them resulting in a short in the windings.
Band linings look like they are almost due for replacement, so definitely, redo them at this time.
Check all the transmission parts carefully. Especially the drums and the flywheel around that broken gear pin!

As for the manifold nut. Those have been reproduced by several people/companies over the years. Several of them were made slightly over-size. So if it is too big for the standard wrench? Not surprising.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:16 pm

Thanks Wayne. Always good to have a person with experience looking at what I'm doing. If anyone else sees something that I'm doing wrong please chime in. I was a Marine for 30 years so I've been yelled at my whole life. Ha!!!

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:25 am

Well I got a bit more done on Rattles yesterday. I decided to clean up the intake and exhaust in the blast cabinet.
IMG_3184.jpeg
IMG_3185.jpeg

Is this a reproduction exhaust part?
IMG_3187.jpeg

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:57 pm

Well today I did some more cleanup on the motor. I used brake clean and then some small items off to the blast cabinet.
IMG_3190.jpeg
IMG_3195.jpeg
This is the only shim I found behind the Magneto.
IMG_3193.jpeg
I think I need a new Valve cover. This one is so pitted I don't think you will ever get a seal on it.
IMG_3194.jpeg


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:52 pm

clean the valve cover like you are doing. Apply Ultra Black around the perimiter and place the gasket on it. Lay the assembly on a surface plate or similar and lightly weight it. Let it cure and you'll be fine. When you assemble to the engine, grease the sealing boss on the engine, apply Ultra Black on the gasket and lightly tighten. Allow to cure and snug a little more. The next time you need to look at the valves, the cover will pop off and every tiny divot on the cast iron block will be in the Ultra Black and will reseal perfectly for multiple times thereafter.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by 1923Touring » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:22 pm

Robert
you have a beautiful car, and I really enjoy your updates. Looking at your pictures, it looks to me like the piston wrist pins are orientated in the wrong direction. If I'm correct, they should be on the camshaft side. Hopefully somebody else will chime-in with an answer.

Good luck,
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:25 pm

Good Idea Scott. Want to make sure I got this right. Are you saying use the black sealant on the cover then add the gasket and put it gasket side down and add some weight. let sit for 10 min? then put grease on the side of the block, more black sealant on the gasket put it on and let it seal.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:29 pm

Joshua, The wrist pin is what is on the piston end of the connecting rod correct? Can someone help? How should they look?


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by 1923Touring » Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:37 pm

Your are correct.
This is how I did my engine. I believe it has something to do with lubrication. There is also supposed to be a slit in the piston side, but I do not recall which side it should be on.

Joshua
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:05 pm

So this is what I found. I went out side and took a video of the way the guy before me set it up. Will this cause a problem? Take a look at the video. If this is an issue that what a great catch!!!. I'm finding all sorts of stuff.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYkfCTbu6B4


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:37 pm

Let the Ultra Black cure over night before taking off of smoothe surface and then do other side. All in good time.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:49 pm

Well I went out to check my pistons after a call to Lang's with questions about installation. The guy who rebuilt the engine used aluminum pistons and yes the split of the side of the piston was facing away from the cam shaft. still odd that the number 1 piston has the wrist pin bolt facing the cam shaft and 2,3, and 4 are facing away from the cam shaft. I'm not so sure how many miles are on the engine so if I remount the 2,3, and 4 rods on the wrist pins and crank I run the risk that the bearings (that are currently worn in the way they are) are going to wear unevenly. I plan on redoing the cotter keys. They didn't leave one side long so they may not hold against the rod and one was missing.


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Allan » Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:58 pm

Robert, I admire your enthusiasm and willingness to have a go. It is a really good way to learn. Equally important is your seeking advice as you go so that you are up with the combined knowledge of a host of other T owners.
In that spirit, I suggest that special T wrench used to undo the four bolt at the crankshaft flange is nice to have but not really up to the task when rebuilding the motor. Those 4 bolts must be tight, and then a bit more, before they are safety wired. Pressure applied to a wrench with that much of an offset causes the wrench to twist off the bolt head, before it is truly tight, and with damage to the head. I use a ring spanner,[box wrench] specially bent to keep it as straight as possible, so that pressure is applied in a straight on pull. The ring spanner also engages far better than an open end wrench.
The original factory timing gear nut wrench also has a similar offset, and it to cranks off the nut, damaging it as it goes. I made a sleeve and washer, held in place by the timer roller nut, to keep that wrench engaged on the gear nut until it was tight.
Keep up the good work.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by RustyFords » Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:54 pm

Allan wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:58 pm
Robert, I admire your enthusiasm and willingness to have a go. It is a really good way to learn. Equally important is your seeking advice as you go so that you are up with the combined knowledge of a host of other T owners.
Dittos to what Allan says.

I’m probably pretty similar to you Robert. When I bought my T a few years ago, I wasn’t a novice old car “wrench-turner” but I was new to T’s and their many, many quirks.

I hesitate to list names because I know I’ll leave out some of the most noteworthy out but Allan, Steve, Hank, John, Donnie, Scott, Duane, Dallas, Wayne and many others have been helpful and generous with advice, knowledge and parts. You’re wise to be seeking and taking advice like you are.

I see in your videos that you have some nice oldies from the 60’s. I too have spent many years around cars from that era and love them but I have to say that my Model T is more fun than any two or three of those combined.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:39 pm

Thanks Allen and Allan!!

I'll make sure that I get the bolts tight. When I bought the wrench I thought that was the only way to get the bolts out. I see now that I can get a modded tool in there. I do like my other cars but I love all things mechanical, Old car, clocks, guns, etc. each one brings a special smile to the face when driven. I think I'm going to love driving the T. I have to wait on some triple gear pins from Bob's. He making another run of them. I should have all the parts from him to rebuild the transmission by then. In the mean time I have lots of bolts to clean and parts to paint. I'm going to make this engine pretty for at least the first 50 miles. Then the oil will leak all over it again. Ha!!!


For anyone who is reading this feel free to comment with your ideas and recommendations. That's what this forum is for. I promise to never ask what kind of oil to use and I'll keep my jug of MMO hidden. Ha!!

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:24 pm

Well not a lot happened today I put in another order to Lang's cleaned up some gasket material. I added a cotter pin to one of my wrist pins. Then I ran into a problem with my Blast Cabinet. I got some Black Beauty (Med) and I think it was too large for my pickup tube. I tried to blow air down the pick up hose and it didn't work. I think I have to go and get some smaller stuff or change out my pickup tube. I was running crushed windshield glass but it was too mild for real rusty stuff.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:06 pm

Well I got some more done today. I'm not sure why people have such a hard time with the gas tank on a 26 touring. I mean after I pulled the engine, steering column, and dash board it came right out. Ha!! :lol:
IMG_3208.jpeg
Here is a video of what I found. The tank looks great on the outside. Unfortunately the inside is lightly rusty. I'm going to send it out to the place where they take it apart and seal it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q9CjmZNZM8

Then I took the head off. I saw that the guy who had the car before me added some washers to three of the head bolts. My guess is that there is some junk in the hole and instead of cleaning it he just added a washer to take up space. I got a new set of head bolts and head gasket. I'll remember to put the gasket on correctly. :roll:
IMG_3213.jpeg
This is what I found when I got the head off. I'm not sure if this hole I pointing to is supposed to be blocked by the head gasket. All the steam holes looked good.
IMG_3214.jpeg
IMG_3216.jpeg

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:13 pm

Well tonight in VA the temperature was 65 so when I got home from work out to the garage I went. Today's work consisted of getting the blast cabinet working. I changed the nozzle out and now it works. I'm going to change the media out next. I also cleaned off the tops of the pistons and the valve seats. Like I was saying the motor was rebuilt and didn't have many miles on it. Here is the after.
IMG_3218.jpeg
IMG_3219.jpeg

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by John Warren » Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:42 pm

Looks like you have something to start with, The bores look glazed,so it may have more miles that you think. Great time to look it all over. At least bead hone it and new rings. Check valves, adjustable lifters are nice. Make sure it has a good cam gear. I like the stock ones. They make better cams , and some people advance the stock cam 1/2 a tooth. Higher compression always helps. I installed high compression pistons in dads car and it was very noticeable along with advancing the cam. Looks totally stock. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:23 pm

Thanks John. In looking at the cylinders I can still see the cross hatch scratches on some. Then again who knows. I'm just glad that it was rebuilt at some point. You sometimes never know until you open it up. Ha!!

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:25 pm

So tonight I got my blast cabinet running good and cleaned up the head.
IMG_3220.jpeg
IMG_3221.jpeg

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:43 pm

Well today I cleaned up some bolts and then went to work on the sediment bulb.

This is what I have to work with.
IMG_3232.jpeg
Found out that there was no screen inside.
IMG_3233.jpeg
This is what it looked like when I got it all apart. I have the rebuild kit for it.
IMG_3234.jpeg
Question: If I put this in my blast cabinet will I mess up the threads? I'm using a mild abrasive "Black Beauty".

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:53 pm

I would expect the threads to be OK, but I would duct tape the tapered cylinder and stuff paper inside the body to protect the mating surface.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:26 pm

Good Idea. I'll see how much I can blast out from the other end. I'll be careful around that surface. Thanks!!


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Scott C. » Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:39 pm

You might want to use some lapping compound on the tapered surface. Also, buy some of that EZ Turn lube that Lang's sells. It works really well on the fuel valve.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:04 pm

Thanks for the tips. I was wondering how I was going to clean it up.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by david_dewey » Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:34 pm

You think black beauty is a mild abrasive? I always understood it was much more aggressive than glass beads.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:48 pm

Scott, Is the EZ turn Lube for the threads to seal them from mass leaking out or for the pard that I could Lap in to make smooth just behind the Packing? The guy who had the car used teflon tape. That's not good.

David, You are correct "Black Beauty" is very abrasive. I should have been more clear I'm using the fine "Black Beauty" It comes in many variations. I had to change from Glass it wasn't working as well on some of the hard rust.


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Scott C. » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:21 am

There is a leather seal that goes around the shaft and then the brass fitting compresses it to make it seal. The EZ Turn lube is impervious to gasoline and lubes the brass valve and the leather seal. I used liquid Teflon to seal the pipe threads at the tank.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:21 pm

Thanks Scott! I ordered the EZ Turn.


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:32 pm

If you truely believe that the plug requires lapping, you will want to use TimeSaver Yellow, for soft metals. Apply per instructions (mixed with oil), and work the valve into the body gently...let the compound do the work. Too much pressure, too much time, or too coarse of a complound and you will remove too much metal from the plug, score concentric rings on the plug which will weep endlessly, and end up with a "ring" on the large end of the plug which will forever be too big and will not allow the plug to seat deeply enough now that excess material was removed.

The Timesaver is a non-embedding compound, which is what you want. Stay away from anything that mentions carborundum or anything that has to do with cast iron or engine valves.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:01 pm

Thanks for the info Scott! I'll be careful.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:06 pm

Today I cleaned up the Fuel sediment bulb. Next I'll do the brass.
IMG_3246.jpeg

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:16 pm

Today I got my Gas tank back from Moyer's Tanks Inc. I have to say they did a great job. Keep in mind they coat the inside and outside. Yes it's a bit runny but you won't see it much and I would rather i have no issues than a tank that looks pretty. I know some choose to do this themselves but the tank on the 26 is a bit odd with the baffling and over fill tube. The take it all apart clean it and then reassemble it and coat it. Didn't want to take a chance in running rusty junk through a rebuilt carb. You can see what I paid as well.
IMG_3240.jpeg
IMG_3242.jpeg
IMG_3244.jpeg
IMG_3241.jpeg
IMG_3245.jpeg

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by RustyFords » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:32 am

Looks good.

I'm with you...I never scrimp on the brakes, steering, ignition and fuel systems on an old car. I'll make do with other items, but not those.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:05 pm

Well today I got some painting done.
IMG_3263.jpeg
IMG_3264.jpeg
Then I polished some brass. Having been a Marine for 30 years I thought I was up to the task.
IMG_3262.jpeg
I decided instead of lapping in the valve. I would hit it with some 0000 steal wool and then chuck it up in my drill and use never dull on it. I'll put some E Z Turn on it when it comes in from Lang's.
IMG_3260.jpeg
IMG_3261.jpeg

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:07 pm

I also cleaned up the transmission for transport to MA in March.
IMG_3257.jpeg

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:26 pm

So I've been sick for the last few days and didn't get much done. Today I was able to get some stuff painted.

I know you can't see it much but I tried to get as much of the black parts painted with some black engine paint from Eastwood.
IMG_3274.jpeg
I also did the head and exhaust manifold.
IMG_3269.jpeg
IMG_3270.jpeg
I received an order from Lang's one item was my new Mag ring with the correct notch for the starter.

Question the coating on the Mag Ring covers this contact for the Magneto post. Should I sand it off for better contact?
IMG_3273.jpeg

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:42 pm

Well I sanded the blob of solder on the Mag ring. Then I took apart the Mag post and cleaned it up as well as painted it. I still want to clean up the brass a bit more for a better contact.
IMG_3275.jpeg
IMG_3278.jpeg
IMG_3279.jpeg
Then i put together my Sediment Bowl. I used some EZ Turn and thread sealer that is used for gas threads. I hope it holds gas. I bought a gas line shut off that will go next to the Carb.
IMG_3280.jpeg
IMG_3282.jpeg


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Scott C. » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:54 pm

Why is there a washer under the nut on the shut off valve? The nut needs to squeeze the leather seal in order to seal. Once working properly, you do not need another valve at the carburetor. This valve will do the job just fine.


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Billdizer,Spencer In » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:58 pm

Looking good! One question, is the exhaust valve on number three cylinder sticking open? In several of the photos there appears to be a large gap in the lifter to valve, and another photo or two the valve looks to be stuck open? May be just my eyes and the photo angle but thought I would ask!

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:13 pm

Scott, That washer was there when i took it apart. When I put it together it was loose like it needed to be tightened some more. I think I'll take it out and try tightening it without the washer. The exploded view I printed from the forum didn't have the washer there.

Bill, I'll check but it think it's just the timing from when I took the picture. I'll turn the crank and see if it is sealing.

Thank you both. Always good to get several sets of eyes on.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:25 pm

Bill You are correct I just went out to the garage (My wife said "you're going out there now?") I can see the valve is stuck. I hope I can free it up with a wood mallet. I'll then turn the engine over and make sure that they are all working.


As always with this Forum THANK YOU THANK YOU You guys are great!!!!!


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:38 pm

Easy does it Robert. A large faced hammer will not strike a square blow.

be sure to strike a square blow on the valve, and better yet, with a small brass drift directly over the stem, centered on the valve face. Be prudent. Consider soaking stem with penetrating oil first. Rotate crank/cam and get cam on heel. Tap valve closed. Repeat.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:45 pm

Scott, I took it easy and placed a wood mallet on top of the valve and tapped it with a rubber mallet after adding some penetrating oil. It moved no problem. I could almost do it with my finger. Then I turned the engine over with the crank and the valve went up with no issues and I had to once again tap it down. Did this several times and now the valve almost closes on its own. I'm going to let it sit and see what happens then try again. I may have to take it out and clean it up. All the other valves seem to be working ok.


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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:46 pm

Excellent

This usually how it goes, but sometimes they can really be stuck! Glad this didn't fight you.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:57 pm

Well today I got the valve working as it should however after talking with John at J&M Machine I'm going to take the valves out and clean out the guides and make sure that they are clean. John is a wealth of information and nice guy. He will be rebuilding my transmission as soon as Bob's gets another run of triple gear pins done. Bob makes the best and I'm happy to wait.

I also cleaned up the Hog's head.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:24 pm

So tonight after work I started to clean up the engine pan. I took off the sight gauge and petcock. Then I took them apart and cleaned them up.

Question: Should the petcock have any packing on it held with the pressure of the spring?
IMG_3288.jpeg

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:47 pm

Well I had a bit of a setback this weekend. I brought my transmission to J & M Machine in Southborough MA. First I am very thankful that I did. They were able to find cracks that would have spelled disaster had it not been checked. Two of my drums (Brake and Reverse) had cracks that were found once Magnafluxed. The other drum was very thin from someone turning it one too many times. The output shaft was gauged and banged up and cracks were also found in the clutch plate and fly wheel. I'll be replacing all that and more. This is a good example of pay me now or pay me latter. Had the drums just been cleaned up and used they would have come apart soon.

I have to say the shop at J & M Machine is impressive. We got a tour of all the machines that they have and what they were used for. I like what John said. "The Model T is a simple engine that is also very complicated. There is a lot to check and do so that everything works together."

They also have sent me pictures of the progress and are very helpful in offering advice and answering questions. If you need machine work done on old engines these guys are great. Hard to find people who work on old stuff.

So when I get done I may end up with a transmission that is worth more than the car but That's ok. I think Rattles will be with me for a long time.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Angmar » Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:45 pm

Good to catch those things now. What are you using for the paint on the fuel valve?
Still crankin old iron

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:29 pm

For the sediment bowl I used Eastwood's black engine paint. We'll see if it lasts.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:20 pm

Tonight I painted a water outlet and 1926 Pan reenforcement brackets.
IMG_3324.jpeg
This was from Lang's It was a NOS one. It cleaned up very well.
IMG_3327.jpeg
This tool and shims are very important for the 26/7 Hog's head.
IMG_3326.jpeg
Thanks to J&M Machine for the suggestion on the bracing (I still need to buy the top bracing) and for showing me how the tool was used.

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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road

Post by Mopar_man » Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:05 am

Well I got some pictures from J&M Machine. They make their own drums and like I said all of mine were cracked.
Drums.jpg

The Magnets have been all recharged.
T Magnets.jpg
They are looking for a 26/7 clutch plate for me.

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