Getting Rattles Back On The Road
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
J&M Machine just sent some more pictures of the gears getting done.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well this is what you get when you combine two hobbies. I used to restore old clocks and had this big tumbler with steel shot that was used to clean up the parts. I decided to try it on some bolts. It worked ok and didn't mess up the threads. I used Dawn soap and water.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well today J&M Machine sent me some pictures of the balancing process. John told me that this was not done by the factory but will sure make a big difference in keeping the "Rattles" out of it. Ha!! What a neat process and John and Michael are great to deal with. Unfortunately for me Most everything In my transmission was cracked or broken. I have seen first hand how the cost of doing it right can add up. I'm ok with that. This car is defiantly not an investment it's for the family to have fun and I plan on keeping it for a long time. If I learned anything it's that the Model T has to have everything working together. If not you run the risk of things "coming from together".
So let's get to the eye candy.
The pins pressed into the flywheel. Magnets going on. on the balance machine. I couldn't get the stats to post but the flywheel was off. John said that's why it's so important to balance it. After you take all the magnets off and on and get it all together it's off. Removing some material.
So let's get to the eye candy.
The pins pressed into the flywheel. Magnets going on. on the balance machine. I couldn't get the stats to post but the flywheel was off. John said that's why it's so important to balance it. After you take all the magnets off and on and get it all together it's off. Removing some material.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
After it was done the whole thing was surfaced so when I set the gap it will easer.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Got this out of sequence. The flywheel gets surfaced first then balanced. seem logical since you are removing material.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So I'm going to quote from John at J&M. "I balanced the triple gears today as tat is part of the flywheel balancing. They need to be weight matched. Have a look at the pictures off at 4 grams. After a spin in the lathe I have them at 3 tenths of a gram."
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Kicked you a note on the wrench for the transmission bolts.
Was the original "horse shoe" shim (that's what I call it anyway) there when you pulled the transmission? In my (somewhat limited) experience it makes resetting easier. If you have it keep it.
Was the original "horse shoe" shim (that's what I call it anyway) there when you pulled the transmission? In my (somewhat limited) experience it makes resetting easier. If you have it keep it.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well today I took out the valves I was able to use a Brigs and Stratton valve spring compressor. Most came right out but some had some sticky oil. I was able to pull them out with my hands. I numbered them 1-8 and then put each in a plastic bag that was numbered. I'm going to clean them up and then lap them in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De-e_6LKYBw
Then I found my first repair.
Also looks like the cover was not centered on the CAM shaft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De-e_6LKYBw
Then I found my first repair.
Also looks like the cover was not centered on the CAM shaft.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
- New valves are not all that expensive...buy 8
- take the new valves to a good shop and have them kiss them incase one or more has shipping damage (they only come in a little paper sleeve)
a cheap can of clover valve grinding paste is one of the most expensive things you can buy for your car. I leave it on the shelf at the store for the guys who have money to install valve seats after wrecking their block with the stuff.
- buy or borrow a Neway carbide cutter kit and do a correct 3 angle seat with the exactly correct seat width
- verify your work with a schmeer of prussian blue and continue to fend off the desire to "just do a little kiss" on the valves with paste. The cutter is all you need.
- contratulate yourself for not falling into the "back in the day" syndrome and doing a tidy professional job with modern tools and methods. If everything was better then, we'd still be drilling teeth with foot powered drills and we'd be buying Heroin for our cough, from Bayer Pharmaceuticals (today you can get it outside of a pharmacy if you know the right person, so there is that, though).
Feel free to email me with questions
- take the new valves to a good shop and have them kiss them incase one or more has shipping damage (they only come in a little paper sleeve)
a cheap can of clover valve grinding paste is one of the most expensive things you can buy for your car. I leave it on the shelf at the store for the guys who have money to install valve seats after wrecking their block with the stuff.
- buy or borrow a Neway carbide cutter kit and do a correct 3 angle seat with the exactly correct seat width
- verify your work with a schmeer of prussian blue and continue to fend off the desire to "just do a little kiss" on the valves with paste. The cutter is all you need.
- contratulate yourself for not falling into the "back in the day" syndrome and doing a tidy professional job with modern tools and methods. If everything was better then, we'd still be drilling teeth with foot powered drills and we'd be buying Heroin for our cough, from Bayer Pharmaceuticals (today you can get it outside of a pharmacy if you know the right person, so there is that, though).
Feel free to email me with questions
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Scott I agree with what you are saying. The right way to do the valves would be new valves, springs, Valve guides, and hardened seats. My goal with this engine was to fix the transmission and drive it. As I started to take it apart I found some things that were done incorrectly. I'm trying to fix those items without having to rebuild the whole engine. I had to replace almost everything in the transmission because of cracks. I'm hoping to get away with checking things on the engine and not have to put more money into it. I know this is not the "right" way to do this. A total rebuild would be the correct thing to do. I'm glad I did what had to be done in the transmission. I very well could be brining the short block to J&M in the future. What I'm hoping for is the engine to run and not have a catastrophic failure. If it does then I'll have to rebuild it anyway. Time will tell if after weighing the risks I made the right decision or not. Thanks for the input and please keep it coming.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
That one valve, still in the block in your video looks to be fairly new. You might want to measure the valve stems with a micrometer. As well as the valve guide ID. They may very well be over size. That might explain the sticking, if someone used a worn reamer on the guides? Also, check the valve stems for wear and taper. If you see more than .002" replace them. I would have the valves ground to make sure that they are concentric and at the proper angle. When I was in the business, I ground every new valve to make sure they were right before I installed them. The seats look pretty good other than that one. But, I would have them ground also just to be sure that the valves seat properly. Then there will be no need to lap them. The valves should be ground at 44 degrees and the seats at 45. The 1 degree interference makes for a better seal. The "3 angle" is just cutting the top and bottom to control the seat contact area and width. The top of the seat is usually ground at either 15 or 30 degrees and the bottom at 60 degrees.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
I would also replace that front cover. There are plenty of them out there.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Scott I was thinking the same thing. I'm going to take it off and see how they did the job.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert, part of your self-description to "do it right" included valve seats. All of that takes a machine shop of course. Trust me a Neway cutter and new valves is a very good step in the right direction and is short of a major rebuild, (compared to lapping), "doing it right". A very credible job can be done on an old engine which will renew the pep in it's step. Far too many engines are simply sent to rebuilders because the owner either lacked the diagnostic skills or repair skills which may, with our amount of driving, have been able to put another 10-15 years on the car easily, and never visit the inside of a shop. So many new owners and a shocking number of seasoned owners will say "well, it developed a knock...off to the rebuilder it goes", and that's too bad. New engines are wonderful, but not everyone is climbing Mt. Evans or running the Mt 500 (and I'd wager that more than one "seasoned" engine has competed in a MT 500 over the years...they're not all fresh out of the babbit shop).
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Scott Conger and Scott C,
Does the Neway cutter also do the valves or just the seats. If I got new valves how are the 3 angle cuts made. Is that done at a machine shop? I saw how the cutter is used putting a mandrel in the valve guide and turning it to do the seat. Once that is done is it necessary to match the valves to the seats or is that done with cutting the 3 angles?
Does the Neway cutter also do the valves or just the seats. If I got new valves how are the 3 angle cuts made. Is that done at a machine shop? I saw how the cutter is used putting a mandrel in the valve guide and turning it to do the seat. Once that is done is it necessary to match the valves to the seats or is that done with cutting the 3 angles?
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Grinding the seats with a grinder or a cutter is typically done at a machine shop. But, some guys do have there own equipment. The valves need be faced in a valve grinder. Once the this is done and the seats are machined. Any valve could go in any seat. However, unless you have adjustable lifters, each valve stem end needs to be ground to set the valve lash. Then each valve needs to be kept in order. The valves do not need 3 angles ground on them, just the 44 degree face. The seats really do not need 3 angles either. The 45 degree is the face. The 60 degree is under the 45 and narrows the seat contact area and gives better air flow for the Hi Po guys. The 15, or 30 degree does the most for narrowing the seat. It moves the contact area away from the outer edge of the valve, thus making it run a little cooler. Again it also helps air flow. Any competent machinist should understand how to properly machine the valves and seats, The NewWay cutter just makes it quick and easy, compared to traditional grinding with stones.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well I got some more parts in the mail. I just need the centering tool for the cam shaft cover. It's on the way soon. Just got this cam shaft gear and the blots for the oil pan. The last guy used regular bolts with no holes for the cotter pins. See I now have a brass car. Ha Ha Ha. To bad no-one will ever see it.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Thank you, that reminds me, I need to get hold of Dan for cam gears... one of the '15 (don;'t like the fiber one on there), one for the '17 engine build...Mopar_man wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:44 amWell I got some more parts in the mail. I just need the centering tool for the cam shaft cover. It's on the way soon. Just got this cam shaft gear and the blots for the oil pan. The last guy used regular bolts with no holes for the cotter pins. See I now have a brass car. Ha Ha Ha. To bad no-one will ever see it.
IMG_3353.jpeg
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert
I'm going to enclose a link which pretty much explains the cutters and how they work and how one or more posters felt that they worked. The set purchased by the OP in this thread purchased the valve resurfacer also. I would recommend sending valves to a shop to be finished even if they are new (cheap insurance for a multitude of problems which could creep up in shipping, stocking, and shipping again) and saving your money by not purchasing that accessory.
The 46 degree seat as well as top cut and bottom cut are described in the link. The top and bottom cuts work to place the valve seat where it belongs as well as narrowing it sufficiently such that the relatively weak valve springs will place enough pressure/sq. inch of face that they seal tightly and can bust up any stray carbon that gets caught...a wider seat will have very low seat pressure vs area and carbon will have a much better opportunity to lock a valve slightly open and cause burning in short order. As an example, a family in two early cars came through Yellowstone on their way from California to Va. They made the assault into Yellowstone from the west, but while in Yellowstone, one car became lame and had a rough time making it to Cody. By the time they made it 35 miles to my home, they were on two cylinders. Two exhaust valves were eaten 1/2 off and the seats were severely burned/pitted. All in about 125 miles. Neway and I sent them on their way in a couple days. Can't say enough good about the tool. If you do not see a future need for the tool, some one will likely loan or rent you what you need.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1221103739
I'm going to enclose a link which pretty much explains the cutters and how they work and how one or more posters felt that they worked. The set purchased by the OP in this thread purchased the valve resurfacer also. I would recommend sending valves to a shop to be finished even if they are new (cheap insurance for a multitude of problems which could creep up in shipping, stocking, and shipping again) and saving your money by not purchasing that accessory.
The 46 degree seat as well as top cut and bottom cut are described in the link. The top and bottom cuts work to place the valve seat where it belongs as well as narrowing it sufficiently such that the relatively weak valve springs will place enough pressure/sq. inch of face that they seal tightly and can bust up any stray carbon that gets caught...a wider seat will have very low seat pressure vs area and carbon will have a much better opportunity to lock a valve slightly open and cause burning in short order. As an example, a family in two early cars came through Yellowstone on their way from California to Va. They made the assault into Yellowstone from the west, but while in Yellowstone, one car became lame and had a rough time making it to Cody. By the time they made it 35 miles to my home, they were on two cylinders. Two exhaust valves were eaten 1/2 off and the seats were severely burned/pitted. All in about 125 miles. Neway and I sent them on their way in a couple days. Can't say enough good about the tool. If you do not see a future need for the tool, some one will likely loan or rent you what you need.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1221103739
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Thanks Scott!
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So tonight I tried to get the CAM out. I posted about that in another thread. So here is what I did today.
First I pulled off the roller and saved all this in a plastic bag. Next the felt washer came out. I'm going to use a neoprene one. To get the cam out first the cover had to come off. You can see the repair on the cover. Not sure if this is JB Weld or brazed.
The generator bracket after painting.
To take out the CAM you have to remove these two bolts.
First I pulled off the roller and saved all this in a plastic bag. Next the felt washer came out. I'm going to use a neoprene one. To get the cam out first the cover had to come off. You can see the repair on the cover. Not sure if this is JB Weld or brazed.
The generator bracket after painting.
To take out the CAM you have to remove these two bolts.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Here is a video I made to show what I was doing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3Vspt_A3ks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3Vspt_A3ks
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well tonight I got the CAM Shaft out and the new CAM gear on.
I'm not sure this CAM bearing was in correct. The notch was not towards the back of the motor when installed. So the top part of this picture was facing the back of the motor.
Looking at this part of the valve seat it looks like it has hardened seats installed.
I'm not sure this CAM bearing was in correct. The notch was not towards the back of the motor when installed. So the top part of this picture was facing the back of the motor.
Looking at this part of the valve seat it looks like it has hardened seats installed.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So today I received my transmission in the mail. I opened up the boxes and It was like Christmas morning. The guys at J&M Machine did a great job and I can't say enough great things about them.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
I also painted the Timing cover and Crank pulley.
I was also able to fit the center bearing on the cam shaft and get it to slide into the block. I thought I was going to have an issue with it but it went in just fine.
I was also able to fit the center bearing on the cam shaft and get it to slide into the block. I thought I was going to have an issue with it but it went in just fine.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well It's been a while since I've been able to get out to the garage. Today I got the Cam Shaft in.
For those who have never had a Cam Shaft out of a T before these two blots have a dowel end and hold two Cam Shaft bearings in place. The end of the shaft is supported by the block.
So now that I have adjustable lifters I have to grind off about 1/16th of an inch of the valve stem. You can see how much it sticks out of the seat. The cam lobe is on the low side and the adjustment is run down but also allowing for some adjustment.
I also got some cleaning done on the pan. I ran this part through the blaster.
For those who have never had a Cam Shaft out of a T before these two blots have a dowel end and hold two Cam Shaft bearings in place. The end of the shaft is supported by the block.
So now that I have adjustable lifters I have to grind off about 1/16th of an inch of the valve stem. You can see how much it sticks out of the seat. The cam lobe is on the low side and the adjustment is run down but also allowing for some adjustment.
I also got some cleaning done on the pan. I ran this part through the blaster.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So today I was able to put the timing cover on as well as the generator bracket. I hope I did it correctly. Here is how it went.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZOtiRKoP9M
The tool made it seem easy to align the cover.
I used the new kind of seal. It fit well but I added a layer of sealant. I'm letting it dry for 24 hours.
Then I moved to fiting the shaft to the flywheel. Michael from J&M said that the new shaft may not fit into the flywheel hole. It seemed to go right in with no issue.
Now will come the fun part of shimming the Mag ring. I'm going to try the method that was described in the MTFCA Magazine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZOtiRKoP9M
The tool made it seem easy to align the cover.
I used the new kind of seal. It fit well but I added a layer of sealant. I'm letting it dry for 24 hours.
Then I moved to fiting the shaft to the flywheel. Michael from J&M said that the new shaft may not fit into the flywheel hole. It seemed to go right in with no issue.
Now will come the fun part of shimming the Mag ring. I'm going to try the method that was described in the MTFCA Magazine.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So tonight after work (I still work for the Marine Corps, now as a civilian. Grateful that I can work from home) I started putting the valves together. Big thanks to John and Mike at J&M Machine. I sent the valves out to have a bit taken off the ends so they would fit with adjustable lifters. They turned them out in a day. I can't sing their praises enough. If you have machine work to do have them do it. You won't be sorry.
So first I made sure that the cam was on the back of the lobe. Then I got the gap adjusted to .015.
Then I put a bit of assembly lube on the valve stem and put the spring in with the keepers. When I see a Model T spring compressor I'm buying it. The small one I'm using is a bit awkward.
Then I turned the engine over and gave it a bit of a tap with a hammer to make sure that everything stayed together.
Still have a few more to go. Slow and steady is i don't make mistakes. I hope.
So first I made sure that the cam was on the back of the lobe. Then I got the gap adjusted to .015.
Then I put a bit of assembly lube on the valve stem and put the spring in with the keepers. When I see a Model T spring compressor I'm buying it. The small one I'm using is a bit awkward.
Then I turned the engine over and gave it a bit of a tap with a hammer to make sure that everything stayed together.
Still have a few more to go. Slow and steady is i don't make mistakes. I hope.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Your coming along really well. You will have a nice running T when your done. I am anxious to see a video of it running!!
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So am I. I still need to work on the steering column, coil box, and all the wiring. Lot's more to do but it's coming along.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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- First Name: Robert
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well I ran into a road block with the valves. The car had chevy valves installed and when i added adjustable lifters I had to have them shortened. Well the issue that I now have is that some of the seats were replaced and the valves fit fine. However, the ones with no seat were still too long. Can't take anymore off the stem so........ I ordered all new valves that were .30 over with pins instead of keepers. I'll install these and measure each one Then have the ends ground to fit.
Today I cleaned up the pan. I was able to get it in the blast cabinet.
Then I flushed the radiator. I had posted about that in another thread.
I also took out the car and cleaned up a lot of the dirt and junk that was all over the firewall. As I was doing all this the mailman came with my valves from Lang's. He asked to take a look at the cars and really liked the T.
Today I cleaned up the pan. I was able to get it in the blast cabinet.
Then I flushed the radiator. I had posted about that in another thread.
I also took out the car and cleaned up a lot of the dirt and junk that was all over the firewall. As I was doing all this the mailman came with my valves from Lang's. He asked to take a look at the cars and really liked the T.
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- First Name: William
- Last Name: May
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Runabout
- Location: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
A couple things that someone else may have mentioned, but maybe not.
Cotter pins in the upper steering quadrant at the steering wheel: I don't know why Ford made them this way, except maybe to save money in manufacturing. I very carefully drill out the rivets, then thread the holes, and when I reinstall the quadrant casting, I use some nickel-plated round head screws. They look nice, and although they are NOT original, the do allow you to maintain your steering column much more easily.
"Black Beauty abrasive: I had the same problem. What I wound up doing is making a frame to hold some steel window screen over a bucket, then scoop the Black Beauty out of the bag, and screen it through into the bucket. You will find a number of particles that are too large to fit through the screen, and therefore, they will constantly clog up you blast cabinet. It only takes about 10 minutes to screen a 90 lb. bag of Black Beauty. Since all my screened abrasive is in buckets, I can put a lid on them to keep the material clean, and I also know that whatever is in the bucket is good material, ready to go. Once you have screened the material, you will find it works REALLY nice.
I have multiple cabinets, so after a while, I dump the abrasive from the "Heavy" cabinet (that gets the fresh-screened sand) and wash it with water to flush out the dirt and rust particles, and let it dry. It then goes in the "Second" cabinet, where the abrasive is now worn down and much finer, and gives a very gentle finish to delicate parts, like thin sheet metal brackets, and other small items.
Black Beauty is wonderful to use, and I think is a lot safer than actual sand, since it is copper smelting slag, and not sand.
Cotter pins in the upper steering quadrant at the steering wheel: I don't know why Ford made them this way, except maybe to save money in manufacturing. I very carefully drill out the rivets, then thread the holes, and when I reinstall the quadrant casting, I use some nickel-plated round head screws. They look nice, and although they are NOT original, the do allow you to maintain your steering column much more easily.
"Black Beauty abrasive: I had the same problem. What I wound up doing is making a frame to hold some steel window screen over a bucket, then scoop the Black Beauty out of the bag, and screen it through into the bucket. You will find a number of particles that are too large to fit through the screen, and therefore, they will constantly clog up you blast cabinet. It only takes about 10 minutes to screen a 90 lb. bag of Black Beauty. Since all my screened abrasive is in buckets, I can put a lid on them to keep the material clean, and I also know that whatever is in the bucket is good material, ready to go. Once you have screened the material, you will find it works REALLY nice.
I have multiple cabinets, so after a while, I dump the abrasive from the "Heavy" cabinet (that gets the fresh-screened sand) and wash it with water to flush out the dirt and rust particles, and let it dry. It then goes in the "Second" cabinet, where the abrasive is now worn down and much finer, and gives a very gentle finish to delicate parts, like thin sheet metal brackets, and other small items.
Black Beauty is wonderful to use, and I think is a lot safer than actual sand, since it is copper smelting slag, and not sand.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
OliyBill,
So Ford made the steering quadrant with cotter pins? I thought they all came with rivets. Was this a 26-7 only thing? I'm already doing as you say with my blast cabinet. That good advice. Keeping the media clean will give a better result.
So Ford made the steering quadrant with cotter pins? I thought they all came with rivets. Was this a 26-7 only thing? I'm already doing as you say with my blast cabinet. That good advice. Keeping the media clean will give a better result.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So today I took apart the cam shaft So I could fit the new valves. I know I did a good job sealing up the Cam shaft cover since I had to tap a razor blade in-between the metal to separate them. I ended up cleaning the cover up in the blast cabinet and repainting it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liva2C5mtcU
I then put the cam back in and dummy me forgot the lifters. So I had to take it all apart again. I also painted the radiator and installed the shroud. I've had good luck with Radiator Black from Eastwood in the past.
Here is a video of how the day went.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liva2C5mtcU
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well first of all sorry I haven't posted in a while. Work, family, other car stuff, teaching shooting classes all kinda came up at once. So Rattles had to take a back seat. Today My daughter and I worked on the valves. It's been a long time getting them right. Once again J&M Machine helped me out with getting them the correct length. Now I have plenty of adjustment up or down.
Here is a video of how the adjustments were made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9F7Hmx ... e=youtu.be
Something to consider. I've been using assembly lube on everything. The lifters require something a bit different. This stuff:
Angie used a q-tip and applied it to the lifters and cam lobes.
Next up is going to be the head gasket.
Then on to the transmission. That's going to be fun.
Here is a video of how the adjustments were made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9F7Hmx ... e=youtu.be
Something to consider. I've been using assembly lube on everything. The lifters require something a bit different. This stuff:
Angie used a q-tip and applied it to the lifters and cam lobes.
Next up is going to be the head gasket.
Then on to the transmission. That's going to be fun.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Great to see the kids involved.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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- Posts: 1559
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:16 am
- First Name: Don
- Last Name: Allen
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, TX
- MTFCA Number: 50001
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
I’ve been following along and appreciate the updates.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Slow and steady wins the race.
1924 Touring
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- First Name: John
- Last Name: Warren
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14 Roadster, 25 Pickup , 26 Canadian Touring , and a 24-28 TA race car
- Location: Henderson, Nevada
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Looking good Robert. Thanks for the updates, I always love seeing progress. Great coverage,Thanks for sharing.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
OK so tonight I put the head on. Here is some videos of what I did. Yes I forgot to put the anti-seize on the bolts so I took them all out and put it on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p220qHzTJRw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8jDPK0 ... e=youtu.be
Using the torque wrench for the first time. We did 20 then 30 then 55 pounds per the book.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPlJNWv ... e=youtu.be
All done. That was easy with the engine out of the car. Ha!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p220qHzTJRw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8jDPK0 ... e=youtu.be
Using the torque wrench for the first time. We did 20 then 30 then 55 pounds per the book.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPlJNWv ... e=youtu.be
All done. That was easy with the engine out of the car. Ha!!
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well yesterday if you saw my other post you saw that I got the oil sump area cleaned on the pan. Today I was able to get the gas tank in.
First I put on the new terminal block and wires.
The tank went in easy without the engine, pedals, dash board, steering column, or interior in the car. I put it in and my daughter in the front to add the washers and nuts.
I think this is the data tag that has all the Pat info on it. Looks like it got painted over. Am I right?
First I put on the new terminal block and wires.
The tank went in easy without the engine, pedals, dash board, steering column, or interior in the car. I put it in and my daughter in the front to add the washers and nuts.
I think this is the data tag that has all the Pat info on it. Looks like it got painted over. Am I right?
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
I was also able to paint the back of the dash. It had a bit of rust on it and although you will never see it I sanded it and put a coat of paint on it.
Then we put the 4 Dip pan on. I'll paint it once it dries. I can only imagine having to do this with the engine in. How you can catch the threads on the two Horseshoe shaped metal straps that would move around seems to be impossible. You would think Ford would have welded them in place.
Then we put the 4 Dip pan on. I'll paint it once it dries. I can only imagine having to do this with the engine in. How you can catch the threads on the two Horseshoe shaped metal straps that would move around seems to be impossible. You would think Ford would have welded them in place.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert
you install 3 short pieces of 5/16 all-thread into each horseshoe. You can install the bottom cover with the engine horizontal in the car or vertical on an engine stand. Once a couple cap screws have caught some threads, the all-thread is removed and saved for next time. Makes the job very easy.
you install 3 short pieces of 5/16 all-thread into each horseshoe. You can install the bottom cover with the engine horizontal in the car or vertical on an engine stand. Once a couple cap screws have caught some threads, the all-thread is removed and saved for next time. Makes the job very easy.
Last edited by Scott_Conger on Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
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- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Wow I never thought of that. That would work. Brilliant!
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
If I gave you my wife's email address, would you share that sentiment with her?
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Ha!!! You can quote me.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So today this gem came in the mail. I have a "fun Projects" kit for mine that I'll do later. For now this one will be a great addition.
Thanks to Jeepbone1 for the nice work if anyone else has an opportunity to buy from him I suggest you take advantage of his good work.
Thanks to Jeepbone1 for the nice work if anyone else has an opportunity to buy from him I suggest you take advantage of his good work.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well I finally got around to working on the GAP for the Mag Ring. Most of the day Saturday was spent on getting two of our other cars back on the road. Some Fuel filters got them right and I was able to work on the T. I read the article in the MTFCA Magazine and thought I'd give it a try. This is a video of the first part. I had to use a rubber mallet to get the shaft on the two small pins of the flywheel.
First you have to put the Mag ring on with the bolts real loose. Then install the flywheel and tighten the blots all the way. At this point the Mag Ring will stick to the magnets creating a big gap under it. Take a measurement there and subtract the GAP you want .025 and then shim the rest of the GAP.
We will see how many times I have to do this to get it right. Ha!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZFzOts ... e=youtu.be
First you have to put the Mag ring on with the bolts real loose. Then install the flywheel and tighten the blots all the way. At this point the Mag Ring will stick to the magnets creating a big gap under it. Take a measurement there and subtract the GAP you want .025 and then shim the rest of the GAP.
We will see how many times I have to do this to get it right. Ha!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZFzOts ... e=youtu.be
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So after work tonight I took some measurements from behind the MAG Ring. I made sure I had the 4 blots tight from the crank to the flywheel. I made a drawing of the measurements then I subtracted the Gap I wanted. I went with .025. I am open to discussion as to how big it should be. I figure .025 would allow the trans to sag a bit and make the Gap on the top a bit bigger. The book says .025 to .040.
Here is what I got with my measurements. Remember The flywheel magnets have been surfaced so my initial Gap was a bit big.
So you can see the size of my shims I need to add. #1= .045, #2= .053, #3= .055, and #4= .055. As John from J&M Machine said "That's a good start." Ha!! I think I'll be taking this off and on a few more times.
Also I hope I didn't make a mistake by installing the valves and head. I've been careful turning the engine over by grabbing the flywheel. I haven't had to force anything so I'm hoping I didn't ruin the valves after all I went through to get them right.
Here is what I got with my measurements. Remember The flywheel magnets have been surfaced so my initial Gap was a bit big.
So you can see the size of my shims I need to add. #1= .045, #2= .053, #3= .055, and #4= .055. As John from J&M Machine said "That's a good start." Ha!! I think I'll be taking this off and on a few more times.
Also I hope I didn't make a mistake by installing the valves and head. I've been careful turning the engine over by grabbing the flywheel. I haven't had to force anything so I'm hoping I didn't ruin the valves after all I went through to get them right.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
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- MTFCA Number: 32331
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
OK. So tonight I shimmed the Mag ring in accordance with my measurements from yesterday. I was able to cut the shims by heating them up and then splitting them with a razor blade. Yes just like buttered bread when you drop one they land sticky side down.
After I attached the flywheel I took my first measurements with the engine on it's nose. Here is what I got.
I think I'll take away some shims and increase the gap at the top of the mag ring.
After I attached the flywheel I took my first measurements with the engine on it's nose. Here is what I got.
I think I'll take away some shims and increase the gap at the top of the mag ring.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
for itteration #2, that's looking darn good...myself, I will never install another mag ring that wasn't surface ground...what a difference in the consistency of your numbers...sweet.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
- First Name: Robert
- Last Name: Govoni
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- MTFCA Number: 32331
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Thanks Scott. I was wondering if the measurements of .042 would be too much. I'm thinking that when the engine is in in the correct way it will sag a bit and close up the gap a bit.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
don't misunderstand...I mean for 2nd shot at it...I'm not saying you're done...you have the book and the numbers...it's up to you to decide when you're done
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
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- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Oh I know. I'm going to try to shave a bit more off the shims under the #1 and #2 area and see if I can increase the gap at the top and close it up at the #9 to #13. Sorry had to rethink this and fix my numbers. Ha!!
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
OK. I know I need some advice. When I bought my Mag Ring they didn't have any surfaced ones in stock and said the people that do them for Lang's wouldn't have them for a while. I tried to get the gap correct however I have one side that is producing a larger than .040 gap. If I remove some shimming material I'm thinking that that will only make the gap bigger. Or do I have that wrong? I tried adding some to one side but the gap under the shims becomes way too small. Does anyone suffice Mag Rings that I can send this one to? I also nicked the sealant in one area. Is that ok? I know this is a right of passage. But could someone chime in and help.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
removing .002 from 1 and 3 area will open that gap around the 2:00 area up and SHOULD reduce bottom 8"00 area a little and you would be golden.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
- First Name: Robert
- Last Name: Govoni
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- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Thanks Scott I'll give it a try!!!
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- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Nunn
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- Location: Bennington, NE
- MTFCA Number: 50321
- Board Member Since: 2017
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert, what paint did you use on your engine? My engine came to me painted the same color. I have a new head for it and I'm looking for a close match to the block.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
I used the Ford Green that Lang’s sells. Seems to cover well. Not sure how it will hold up to the heat. Time will tell.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So tonight I was able to clean up the headlight bar. I put a straight edge on it to get me in the ball park of adjusting the headlights.
I also got this apart. Had to cut the nut off. It was so bad it was round.
I always enjoy finding the Ford script on everything.
I also got this apart. Had to cut the nut off. It was so bad it was round.
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- First Name: Don
- Last Name: Allen
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
- Location: Houston, TX
- MTFCA Number: 50001
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
- First Name: Robert
- Last Name: Govoni
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- Location: Fredericksburg, VA
- MTFCA Number: 32331
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So today some stuff from Lang’s came in.
I got all the windshield rubber. Ball bearing pulley, fan shaft and nut. 4 headlight bulbs so I have spares, washer felt, in line fuse, 1926 engine support straps (already have the pan brackets.
Also sent my mag ring out to J&M Machine. They were able to true it up for me. So I’m hoping it goes together a bit easier.
I got all the windshield rubber. Ball bearing pulley, fan shaft and nut. 4 headlight bulbs so I have spares, washer felt, in line fuse, 1926 engine support straps (already have the pan brackets.
Also sent my mag ring out to J&M Machine. They were able to true it up for me. So I’m hoping it goes together a bit easier.
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- First Name: Don
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- Location: Houston, TX
- MTFCA Number: 50001
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
That ball-bearing pulley is a good piece....been using one on my car since I got it running.
1924 Touring
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Seems like I'm going to have to chuck up the shaft bolt in my drill press and sand it dow a bit to fit. Di you have to do that to yours?
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So I decided to put together my water inlet. I posted some separate questions to make sure I'm doing it right. Specifically the washer that comes with the pulley. I think I know where it goes now. Anyway here are some pictures of what I did. A word of caution. I had to put the main bolt in a drill press and sand about 1000th off with 400 and then 600 sandpaper. Then polish it up with 0000 steal wool.
Here is a video I did of how it goes together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS0euvUiIHE
You can see here that the bolt doesn't fit the bearing.
Here is the exploded view.
Here is a video I did of how it goes together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS0euvUiIHE
You can see here that the bolt doesn't fit the bearing.
Here is the exploded view.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So let me explain. I'm trying to get rid of any variations that I can.
1st I made a mark on the crank and the flywheel so I know I'm putting it on the same way every time. The pins are going in the same holes. All 4 bolts go on as well to hold the flywheel to the crank and are tightened.
2nd I put an arrow pointing to the magnet that allows me to line it up over the same part of the mag ring.
3rd I got some roofing flashing that is the gap I want the magnets to be from the mag ring.
4th I put the mag ring on loosely and allowed the mag ring to stick to the magnets creating a gap where the bolts are that hold the mag ring on. To make sure that it was even all the way around I clamped it.
Now I just need to measure the gap under the bolts that hold the mag ring on and put the correct shims in.
I know maybe I'm overthinking this.
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- First Name: Dennis
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
But.... But ......but.... It won't be Rattles any more!!
'24 RPU
Petoskey, Mi
Petoskey, Mi
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Not to worry. There will be plenty to rattle in the future. Ha!!
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
It's aluminum.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So tonight I Shimmed the recently surfaced Mag Ring and I think I've got it.
Here is a video showing how I bolted it together and how the oil line goes in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N5y4unrqKQ
This is how my Gap came out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRZdu-u37o8
Making sure that they lobes of the shims are not going to get in the way of the felt seal. Here is a video showing how I bolted it together and how the oil line goes in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N5y4unrqKQ
This is how my Gap came out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRZdu-u37o8
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So tonight I did a bit of organizing of parts. Hope I remember where all this goes.
I also took off my hood shelves and cleaned them up. Had to use a dolly and hammer to straighten some of the holes.
Now I need a bit of help. I was able to ID all my parts and labeled everything except these two gaskets. Where do they go?
I also took off my hood shelves and cleaned them up. Had to use a dolly and hammer to straighten some of the holes.
Now I need a bit of help. I was able to ID all my parts and labeled everything except these two gaskets. Where do they go?
Last edited by Mopar_man on Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Top is mag pickup. Still thinking on the lower one
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Lower one could be gas cap gasket
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well today I took apart the timer to clean it up. I didn't bead blast the contacts just the body of the timer and the studs and nuts.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So sometimes you have to do a little bit on your T for a "well that looks good" moment. Today I installed the tail light. I know it's an easy thing but it looks good. Ha!!
I also painted these as well as grinder off the markings on the bolts and painted them as well.
This was a big step I know the guys from J&M are saying what the heck is taking him so long!!! So today I also timed the triple gears. I used the U mark and went every 9th tooth.
I also painted these as well as grinder off the markings on the bolts and painted them as well.
This was a big step I know the guys from J&M are saying what the heck is taking him so long!!! So today I also timed the triple gears. I used the U mark and went every 9th tooth.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert, I see your transmission selfie on page 1. I am at that point. How did you lift the flywheel/transmission assembly off the engine? I have some ideas, but they are kind of scary. Thanks for advise and great job. Tommy
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert G. - First of all, thanks so much for documenting all of your (and daughters) work with write-up and great photos! Have been following, and as such, been wondering if you ever obtained what you might consider a suitable valve spring compressor, as you apparently did not care for the one you'd been using. (???)
The reason I asked is because over the years, I have managed to "acquire" quite a collection of various type valve spring compressors for Model T & Model A valve work, and I've NEVER yet found one that wasn't pretty difficult and awkward to work with. Also, I've never really decided whether I prefer the modern style valves and split conical type keepers or if it's better to stick with the original Ford type keepers with the little pins. (???) Seems as tho' there advantages and disadvantages with each, right?
Again, thanks so much for documenting and sharing with photos of all the work,.....harold
The reason I asked is because over the years, I have managed to "acquire" quite a collection of various type valve spring compressors for Model T & Model A valve work, and I've NEVER yet found one that wasn't pretty difficult and awkward to work with. Also, I've never really decided whether I prefer the modern style valves and split conical type keepers or if it's better to stick with the original Ford type keepers with the little pins. (???) Seems as tho' there advantages and disadvantages with each, right?
Again, thanks so much for documenting and sharing with photos of all the work,.....harold
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Tommyleea I just picked it up. It's about 85 pounds. When I was adjusting the gap I only had the flywheel on and off. I have seen some here with chains picking it up. Probably not the safest way to do it.
Harold. Nope like you I haven't had been able to find one that worked easy. I used the Ford type valves. If you use adjustable lifters you will have to have the valve stems ground down. You can't do that so well with the valve retaining keepers. The pin keeper has more stem that you can grind down.
I posted this story in the off topic side before. Angie is my 15 year old daughter. Watch those springs!
So we are putting in the valves on the Model T. The spring compressor kept falling off the spring and I decided to compress the spring with my hands with my arms around Angie's head so she could see where to put the pin in to hold the spring. Then she calmly says: "So what are we going to tell the emergency room Doctor?"
This link has some good info as well.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17104&p=129405#p129405
Harold. Nope like you I haven't had been able to find one that worked easy. I used the Ford type valves. If you use adjustable lifters you will have to have the valve stems ground down. You can't do that so well with the valve retaining keepers. The pin keeper has more stem that you can grind down.
I posted this story in the off topic side before. Angie is my 15 year old daughter. Watch those springs!
So we are putting in the valves on the Model T. The spring compressor kept falling off the spring and I decided to compress the spring with my hands with my arms around Angie's head so she could see where to put the pin in to hold the spring. Then she calmly says: "So what are we going to tell the emergency room Doctor?"
This link has some good info as well.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17104&p=129405#p129405
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert G. - Thanks for the reply,....I think that more modern valve spring compressor that Steve Jelf showed (....that he paid $2 for) is actually designed for doing valve work on modern overhead valves with the head(s) off of the engine just might work well,....and I gotta' admit,....I never really thought to try one of those! Just might work well on Model T's and Model A's, huh?
Excuse me for cluttering up this wonderful speedster build thread here Robert, but the comment your daughter made not only made me laugh, but reminded me of an "experience" my Dad and I had one day when I was helping him with something when I was a kid, maybe I was a couple years younger than your daughter. At least 70 years ago now, but BOY! ....do I ever remember it well!
Dad used to make beautiful table lamps out of tall cypress knees, and because the lamps were quite tall, for counter weight, he would drill several large holes in the bottom and fill them with molten lead that he melted from lead scraps, and wheel balance weights and other scrap lead he could find. The first couple of these lamps that he made, he would have me hold the lamp upside down, while he poured the molten lead into the holes. (....Dads' "little helper", right?) One time, he accidentally poured a bit of the molten lead too near the edge of the hole, and it ran over to the side of the lamp base and down to my hand. Of course as he was very focused on the pouring of the lead, he didn't realize that a bit of the lead burned my hand, and he hollered at me,...."HOLD IT STILL"! It wasn't until a moment later that he realized what had happened and why I had "trouble" holding it still!
Many years later, my Dad (by then, a grandfather to my four boys) and I were "reminiscing" and talking about that incident, and he told me,..."You know, of all the dumb things I've ever done, that was one of the all-time dumbest!" Dad said he never felt so bad about anything involving me as he did about that nickel-sized blister on my hand that resulted from that, and he said something like,...."I think that was the maddest your Mom ever was at me", and she'd said to me, "what on earth ever possessed you do something as dumb as that?"
Dad told me,...."you know, I really had absolutely no answer for that, and it really was a stupid thing for me to have asked you to do!"
Again, sorry to "clutter up" this wonderful speedster thread with this Robert, but your daughter's comment reminded me of this and I just couldn't resist telling you about it. And really, it is true that while it really is nice when we can include our kids in our hobby, one really has to be careful, and if somebody has to get hurt, it had better be "the ol' man, right?
Excuse me for cluttering up this wonderful speedster build thread here Robert, but the comment your daughter made not only made me laugh, but reminded me of an "experience" my Dad and I had one day when I was helping him with something when I was a kid, maybe I was a couple years younger than your daughter. At least 70 years ago now, but BOY! ....do I ever remember it well!
Dad used to make beautiful table lamps out of tall cypress knees, and because the lamps were quite tall, for counter weight, he would drill several large holes in the bottom and fill them with molten lead that he melted from lead scraps, and wheel balance weights and other scrap lead he could find. The first couple of these lamps that he made, he would have me hold the lamp upside down, while he poured the molten lead into the holes. (....Dads' "little helper", right?) One time, he accidentally poured a bit of the molten lead too near the edge of the hole, and it ran over to the side of the lamp base and down to my hand. Of course as he was very focused on the pouring of the lead, he didn't realize that a bit of the lead burned my hand, and he hollered at me,...."HOLD IT STILL"! It wasn't until a moment later that he realized what had happened and why I had "trouble" holding it still!
Many years later, my Dad (by then, a grandfather to my four boys) and I were "reminiscing" and talking about that incident, and he told me,..."You know, of all the dumb things I've ever done, that was one of the all-time dumbest!" Dad said he never felt so bad about anything involving me as he did about that nickel-sized blister on my hand that resulted from that, and he said something like,...."I think that was the maddest your Mom ever was at me", and she'd said to me, "what on earth ever possessed you do something as dumb as that?"
Dad told me,...."you know, I really had absolutely no answer for that, and it really was a stupid thing for me to have asked you to do!"
Again, sorry to "clutter up" this wonderful speedster thread with this Robert, but your daughter's comment reminded me of this and I just couldn't resist telling you about it. And really, it is true that while it really is nice when we can include our kids in our hobby, one really has to be careful, and if somebody has to get hurt, it had better be "the ol' man, right?
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Harold,
Fun story. I alway think it's a good idea to get kids involved even if it's a bit dangerous. You must have been a tough kid to still be holding that lamp. By the way This is a touring. Not a speedster. Although I still need to add a lot of stuff. Ha!!
Fun story. I alway think it's a good idea to get kids involved even if it's a bit dangerous. You must have been a tough kid to still be holding that lamp. By the way This is a touring. Not a speedster. Although I still need to add a lot of stuff. Ha!!
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert:
Oops! Brain fog! I knew that the "T" that you and your daughter were (and are) working on was a touring, but I guess I had just been reading several speedster posts on the internet and here on the forum,...sorry,.....harold
Oops! Brain fog! I knew that the "T" that you and your daughter were (and are) working on was a touring, but I guess I had just been reading several speedster posts on the internet and here on the forum,...sorry,.....harold
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Harold,
Best part of this forum is all the reading. So much fun.
Best part of this forum is all the reading. So much fun.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
A bit of progress. My first safety wire job. Now for the Flywheel bolts!!
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well I got an e-mail from John at J&M Machine. He looked at my safety wire job and pointed out that the wire should be twisted as close to the bolt as possible. so I took it apart and did it over. I can't say enough about J&M. They are always checking up and making sure that I'm not making mistakes.
So this is what happens when you think that you are just going to do something simple. I thought, Let me put the Pac Nut on the pipe so it will be ready to go the I install the engine. Seemed like an easy job. Then I couldn't take the pipe out of the muffler. So I got under the car and saw that the muffler was all loose and the whole thing had to come out. Then I tried to separate the pipe and couldn't do that. I'm going to have to now move one of my other cars and and put the pipe in the pipe vise to get it apart. Well it least I know how it all goes together.
So this is what happens when you think that you are just going to do something simple. I thought, Let me put the Pac Nut on the pipe so it will be ready to go the I install the engine. Seemed like an easy job. Then I couldn't take the pipe out of the muffler. So I got under the car and saw that the muffler was all loose and the whole thing had to come out. Then I tried to separate the pipe and couldn't do that. I'm going to have to now move one of my other cars and and put the pipe in the pipe vise to get it apart. Well it least I know how it all goes together.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well tonight I got the Pac Nut on the pipe and put the muffler back together and on the car. I was happy to find no rust anywhere. Still at it a little at a time.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well today I was able to get out to the garage and put the drums on. You can see that here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4UeV94 ... e=youtu.be
However when banging on the clutch cup I went a bit too far and I have to get a puller to get it off. I needed one anyway because if the endplay is wrong with the 3 washers that are there (my luck say that it won't be correct) I need to take it off anyway.
Today I also safety wired the Flywheel to the crank. I know it's going slow but it will get there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4UeV94 ... e=youtu.be
However when banging on the clutch cup I went a bit too far and I have to get a puller to get it off. I needed one anyway because if the endplay is wrong with the 3 washers that are there (my luck say that it won't be correct) I need to take it off anyway.
Today I also safety wired the Flywheel to the crank. I know it's going slow but it will get there.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
I was able to pull the clutch cup up a fraction and the blot went in. I then tried to pull the drums up and down to see if I had any measurable endplay. The drums wouldn't move at all. I put my dial indicator on the inside of the brake drum (for fun) and the needle move about .001 thousandth with me pulling on it. Not sure if I should have pried on the whole drum assembly to check for endplay movement. So I have to buy some thiner washers. Each of my washers (3) are .042 thousandths. Lang's sells a .025 washer. By the way this a a 26/7 transmission.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well I had a small victory tonight. I was able to put the clutch cup on and have the correct distance. I used two .042 and one .025 washers and was able to get a .016/7 gap. The book say it should be .015 to .022. This was with me just pulling up on it. If I got a small pry-bar in there I bet it would be a bit more. I put the dial indicator on a lug on the brake drum. Here is a video of the measurement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4LYDdIR4sI
Here is the setup. Then I put the key in and made sure it was flat agent the cup. I also painted the oil pan blots. I forgot to do that the last time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4LYDdIR4sI
Here is the setup. Then I put the key in and made sure it was flat agent the cup. I also painted the oil pan blots. I forgot to do that the last time.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well i got the clutches in. I'm using a Jack Rabbit Clutch set. So The first thing I did was soak the clutches in oil for two days then I scuffed up the new large disks. I stacked them as the directions said.
Now I just have to compress the spring and then bolt on the Clutch plate. The directions said that you may have to use another large disk if you have some wear. I'm hoping since everything is new it should be ok.
Now I just have to compress the spring and then bolt on the Clutch plate. The directions said that you may have to use another large disk if you have some wear. I'm hoping since everything is new it should be ok.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert,Now will come the fun part of shimming the Mag ring. I'm going to try the method that was described in the MTFCA Magazine.
Which issue of the MTFCA magazine described this method?
Thanks,
Neal
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Neal This was the issue.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well tonight we wired up the switch for my 26 touring. I did find the the contacts on the reproduction wiring harness were a bit big. So I used a larger lock washer. How did my daughter do?
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well tonight after work I got the drive plate and Clutch spring on.
Now don't make fun of my spring compressor. It worked!
Now don't make fun of my spring compressor. It worked!
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So first off I have to say that I know this is taking me a lot longer than most. Sorry for that. Today I just put the Bands on and wired up the dash harness.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert, I am enjoying your thread and very glad to see your Daughter involved. It will be just as exciting for her when Rattles, Rattles again! Looking good and keep us posted.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Ditto.John Warren wrote: ↑Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:04 pmRobert, I am enjoying your thread and very glad to see your Daughter involved. It will be just as exciting for her when Rattles, Rattles again! Looking good and keep us posted.
I love your build thread and follow it closely. I should comment more. Keep up the good work.
1924 Touring
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So tonight I decided to take apart my steering column. The springs were missing on the adjustment rods. The rivets are missing and the gear cover is stuck.
So then I cleaned up some of the parts with mineral spirits and put them in the blast cabinet.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Very nice thread Robert, You are making life time memories and a bond with your daughter.
All the Best,
Hank
All the Best,
Hank