MTFCA Forum

1917 T Coupelet, convertible top version with oval quarter windows. Older restoration but very presentable. Wire wheels and Ruxtell axle. Hasnt been on the road in many years. An unusual chance to own a very rare and desirable T. Link to photo album with many photos.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/viuVQ3K1As5zYdqU8

Car is in Binghamton, NY
Asking $18,500 or respectful offer. Make an offer!
Call Rob: 6035204447
struble.rob@gmail.com

Here is how it would have looked in the Ford showroom.

David, Email sent, Thanks Admin....n

Good looking wheels, any idea who the manufacture is?

babychadwick wrote: ↑

Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:29 am

Good looking wheels, any idea who the manufacture is?

Hayes.

Jim Sr’s picture may also be good documentation of how much oil a new T generally leaked. Just the fact that someone in a dealership left that pan under the car without wiping it clean is a good indication that sort of leakage was probably considered quite normal.

Leaky oil keeps the engine clean 'cause of all the oil you gotta add! I feel sorry for the poor guys that actually have to drain and change their oil...

Adam, that amount of oil leaking from the T may have been normal those days when the driveway and the garage floor was dirt but not when you have a long concrete driveway and a nice clean garage. The wife is ready to kill me every time I move the T due to all the oil puddles. This is a brand new rebuild and the rebuilder didn’t give a damn and couldn’t care and outright refused to fix the huge amount of oil puddles problem every time the car was parked even for just a minute. Frank

They all leak some, but a T in good shape ought not to leak a lot. Mine leaks very little. After driving 30-40 miles, it will drip a few drops at the front of the engine and a few at the rear. Once in a while, a dime size blob of grease will drop from the ball joint. It drips some oil right after oiling the chassis. It does make a mess over time on the floor where it is regularly parked. No puddles, but the drips accumulate over time such that I put cheap cat litter under the engine area. I use 5W30 or 10W30 synthetic oil and red # 2 grease. I oil the chassis and springs regularly, which adds to the drips. I'm compelled to run several miles on dusty dirt roads every trip, which doesn't help in keeping the car clean. It does not accumulate oil on the back of the body. Most oiliness under the car is in the flywheel housing area and around lube points. I routinely drive this car over 40 MPH. Driving slower would probably reduce oil leakage. Adding a road draft pipe to the oil filler would probably reduce oil escaping as mist. A positive crankcase vent setup would probably greatly reeduce oil leakage.

At the FORD headquarters during the FORD Motor Company centennial they had a 1/4 mile curved demonstration track to give visitors a ride in a Model T. T's went around the fresh asphalt track for 10 hours a day for four days. Brother, that pavement was slick with oil! I was most impressed. They all leak if they have oil in them.
Jon

I have a long concrete driveway and I run along and spray brake cleaner on oil drops after I take my T for a drive. It’s just one of those things.

I guess I'm lucky. Mine does not leave puddles and it does not leak more than a few drops, if any, while sitting with the motor running while I open the gate or barn door. It certainly does not leave a trail of oil down the (dirt) driveway or when driven into the barn. (Concrete apron and floor) I keep the oil level as close to halfway between the upper and lower cocks as I can. I also have aluminum pistons and modern type rings. Leaky rings will assure plenty of oil escaping, besides any oil burned. Loose bearings will add to the amount of oil leaking and escaping as mist.

I had my engine rebuilt by Adam and it leaks very little. This car has been to Detroit and back twice. I think he has a secret.

If you go to google maps and search for Greenfield village and tap the sattelite icon you can make out the regular route the museum Ts take by the very prominent oil trail these very well maintained T leave

DHort wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:13 am

I had my engine rebuilt by Adam and it leaks very little. This car has been to Detroit and back twice. I think he has a secret.

The secret is attention to detail. A T can be made leak-less. REALLY. O-rings or seals on the transmission pedal shafts, ultra black on gaskets, modern seal on a correctly prepared crank & an added outer front neoprene seal, sealed bearings in the generator & starter plus a shaft seal.
Its a package & commitment. Complete leakness is possible, but may only last a few years until a drip or 2 shows up & needs to be chased & fixed.

A down side is the requirement of manually oiling the outside pedal cams. They can go dry, Gaul & no longer engage until again lubricated.

Given the current price of motor oil, and the difficulty of keeping a leaky T halfway clean, I'd want to make every reasonable effort to build a leakless engine/transmission. A cleaner parking area and less chance of dirt and water intrusion would be worthwhile side benefits.

On the other hand, I enjoy having my entire chassis automatically lubricated.

Hey... wasn't someone selling a Coupelet here??

Incredible. A coupelet is offered for sale, and all that is discussed is leaking oil. Give me a break. Start a your own new thread about sealing up a T. Let's have a discussion about coupelets! Just sayin'. Bill

I agree Bill. A very rare body style and no-one yet to make comment or observations about the car in question. It does have some very cool accessories a such as the Hayes wire wheels and the Stromberg OF carb but it seems that the 1917 body is mounted on a later model chassis and running gear as a study of the pictures shows this clearly. Would love to hear other folk knowledgeable about Coupelets make comment?

This little car is fantastic. If only to have space and funds when I need them!

There's not a lot of 1917 about the running gear. Frame is 22 0r later, motor with generator 19 or later, Aftermarket honeycomb radiator. It may be a rare and desireable body style, but the rarity premium is gobbled up by the mishmash of later parts. I do like the Hayes wire wheels though.

Allan from down under.

Allan wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:40 am

There's not a lot of 1917 about the running gear. Frame is 22 0r later, motor with generator 19 or later, Aftermarket honeycomb radiator. It may be a rare and desireable body style, but the rarity premium is gobbled up by the mishmash of later parts. I do like the Hayes wire wheels though.

Allan from down under.

Can you share what makes the frame a '22 or later? Is it the runningboard brackets?

Allen, no offense intended, but I don't see a later running board brackets or a later driveline housing as having any effect on price of a driver car, especially a black-era driver car. In the US, loose stock T chassis parts for 1917-1921 cars have typically have little to no current value. Unfortunately, many now go to scrap. Or are almost free or free for the asking.

John, Allans point is correct. The car is advertised as a 1917. If the body is indeed an original or even correct 1917 it should have period correct running gear underneath it. A 1917 body with all later model running gear underneath it is a mix up of parts, and I expect as Allan does that to match it up with all the correct production 1917 chassis and engine parts would be a costly and time consuming exercise.

Aussie16 wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:48 pm

John, Allans point is correct. The car is advertised as a 1917. If the body is indeed an original or even correct 1917 it should have period correct running gear underneath it. A 1917 body with all later model running gear underneath it is a mix up of parts, and I expect as Allan does that to match it up with all the correct production 1917 chassis and engine parts would be a costly and time consuming exercise.

What car restoration isn't a costly and time consuming exercise? 1917 chassis parts are relatively abundant. 1917 Coupelet bodies... not. Besides, who says it can't be thoroughly enjoyed pretty much as-is?

Aussie16 wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:48 pm

John, Allans point is correct. The car is advertised as a 1917. If the body is indeed an original or even correct 1917 it should have period correct running gear underneath it. A 1917 body with all later model running gear underneath it is a mix up of parts, and I expect as Allan does that to match it up with all the correct production 1917 chassis and engine parts would be a costly and time consuming exercise.

I will gladly provide a set of factory wheels, rear end, engine, carb, water pump, motometer, radiator, rtc that are factory 1917 in exchange so you can bring it back to stock without accessories. Best thing for someone is to get it and have fun putting it back on the road. We know it isn't that hard to put together a chassis so over time should a new owner decide to bring it back to factory they could take the time to build a complete chassis and then in a day just move the body onto it.

Briefly, the pressed steel running board supports on our Canadian sourced cars first appeared in 1922.

The value of the vehicle is dependent on its true description. A 1917 couplet is of considerably more value than a 1917 couplet body on a 20's model running gear. Sure, the car may be a good driver, and it might be just the ticket for certain people, and could be enjoyed just as much as a true 1917 car, but that does not mean it is worth the same. Given that correct parts can be accumulated over time, that takes time and not inconsiderable expense in labour.
One would need to find a correct frame, running engine and transmission assembly, fan assembly, horn, horn button, front spring shackles, over axle front wishbone, front spring perches, headlight lenses, tie rod, rear radius rods, driveshaft tube, muffler, rear spring etc, etc, etc, for no cost and with labour to do the reassembly thrown in. Surely this has value, which needs to be taken into account when assessing the value of such a car. If you can find all this, and do the work, all for nothing, go for it. You can afford to pay the price for a known, correct 1917 model Couplet.

Allan from down under.

Allan wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 21, 2022 6:21 am

If you can find all this, and do the work, all for nothing, go for it. You can afford to pay the price for a known, correct 1917 model Couplet.

Allan from down under.

Excellent! Now go find another, better, 1917 Coupelet.

I really like this car and would own it. Like others, I would search out all the correct 1917 parts to make the car truly a 1917. The main problem with this car is the vinyl top, the Naugahyde upholstery. Correct upholstery will be a non trivial cost. I see rust coming through the paint in places. For the asking price, I will seek out a better car or live with different body style. Brian

So, lots of silly discussion.

The cheapest way to put a correct chassis under it: buy a good running correct 17 Touring or Runabout, swap the bodies, sell the other.

But you could have tons of fun driving the wheels off a 17 Coupelet until you find the donor! This is likely the only example you will see for sale for a decade or more!

Lots of people expressing interest and complaining. Has anybody just called Rob and made an offer?

Still there. Someone needs to make and offer.

I guess its still for sale. Why wont somebody just make an offer?

I havent seen a Coupelet out in the world in many years! This one needs an owner that will run it on tours all over!

I really thought this would sell quickly. As David says, go ahead and make an offer. I have no stake in this at all, I'd just like to see it at least cleaned up and used. It's a cool car!

It IS a cool car. I think the asking price is just too much for only an authentic body, though. The later running gear is what is hobbling this sale. Nobody wants to pay $24,000 for a body that is worth $10,000 and a chassis that's worth $2500.
And then have to build a 1917 chassis up, to put the body onto, on top of it.

I spoke with the late owners son who is selling this and the rest of what is a fairly sizeable collection. He comes across as car savvy, not pressed to sell, and not niave to give it away. He has been receiving offers, because mine was one of them. As to moving this to a resto project, agreed, this is an approximately 10K body, sitting on a hodge podge of nominal value parts. Rims and Ruckstell may be 4K, if the Ruckstell is in safe operating condition. Mechanical condition of car is not known, and so not committed. As to finished value to me, that estimate includes thst it is the last year of this unique body style. That it is not a brass car, may lessen value to some...IMO, the painted radiator compliments this body design.

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Guys, make him an offer.

Back up top. Please make him an offer!

Price reduced. Make an offer!

I like the car and would be happy to own it but how do you get rid of all the mold that is all over the interior and who knows how much more underneath that you cannot see.

The mold can be removed and eradicated without too much problem. I’ve had several cars that had mold from sitting when found.

Back to the top.

Make an offer!

The owner also has an unrestored '16 Runabout available. That would be a perfect donor chassis for this car.

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STILL FOR SALE. VERY RARE MODEL.

I just cant believe nobody has jumped on this! I remember the first Coupelet I ever saw at Hershey. And Bill Barth used to run his quite a bit on tours. People were always hanging around them all excited!

Nobody cares anymore? It is so sad.

Sarikatime wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:27 pm

I like the car and would be happy to own it but how do you get rid of all the mold that is all over the interior and who knows how much more underneath that you cannot see.

Bring it Arizona! A couple weeks out there in 107°/5% humidity and voilà…mold gone!

Windex will clean it rite up.

I sure as heck wouldn't let mold stop me from buying any car that I had any desire to own.

The people who are getting lost in mildew and oil drips and the wrong engine are also people who will never be able to get thru the "Elephant Eating" effort that is a restoration.

One person said its a $10,000 body on a $2,500 chassis. Precisely! With a $1,500 Ruxtell and a $2,000 set of wire wheels and hubs. And its all in one piece!

I truly thought there would be a rush for this car. The world is different today.

Would somebody please just call Rob and make an offer?

So, it's a $16,000 car that is for sale at $19,500, and needs a 2nd car purchased to donate parts to build it up right.

It's an interesting car, and like Jerry, I wouldn't pass it up for having mold...but I would pass it up for sheer economics. I don't see a good reason to imply that folks are crazy to pass it up. That car just isn't for the average guy, especially when that kind of dough will buy a darn nice earlier brass T that is 5 years off of a good restoration.

Different strokes for different folks.

Remember, for most it is a hobby, if you start trying to get a return on your investment, it is now a business, a whole different ball game.
Van

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I don’t know anything about this particular car because I live on the west coast. I would find out if the car had been in a flood, because that could cause all the wood framing to swell and then shrink when dry, which may cause some splitting of the wood. Fresh water may be ok but salt water could be a real problem.
In another point I remember a Vintage Ford story about a original late 1917 or 1918 removable pillar coupe that two sisters bought new in 1917 and in 1922 they had the Ford dealer swap the coupe body onto a new 1922 chassis with a starter. In the 1970’s when the sisters passed away the 1917 or 1918 flat roof coupe on the 1922 chassis was still in their garage.

Been stored in a dry garage on high ground for 50+ years. Cant figure out what would lead you to even posit that situation.

That is good to know that the car has always been in dry storage, all that mold came about for some reason .

2 years ago house behind the building it is in caught fire. Fire fighters soaked back of the building for several hours. It got humid inside. Owners son didnt get the front doors opened up in time. There is mildew on vinyl upholstery. Car was never wet. Building was humid for a few days.

This one still for sale? Saw it somewhere else and asking price was down again.